Looking for a shore line....

Post by **Code3Response** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 9:16 pm

As it says. Its been discussed here. Jim, do you sell them? Need one for my work truck that mysteriously has a dead battery every monday morning. Hmmm.... maybe I have TOO MUCH DANG EQUIPMENT IN IT!

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 10:31 pm

Any 3/4 inch natural fiber rope should do it. But I don't think you are lookin at tieing up a boat.......

It's a little more than just the plug on the side of the vehicle.....there is a power supply and battery charger that have to be installed as well. Is it possible to just turn everything off at the end of the day? Either that or you just might need a new battery.....

Post by **Code3Response** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 10:40 pm

I know its easy to turn it off - but when the truck gets back here at 8 or 9 pm sometimes, and leaves again at 4:30 or 5 am - its a pain! There are also portables in the vehicle that need topping off, LED traffic cones in the back that need charging - etc. Im just testing the waters to see if anyone has anything. Thanks!

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:04 am

Well to be honest at one of the commercial EMS services I used to work for we would run an extension cord with a break-away plug to run an inverter to charge LifePack batteries and in the winter time a portable electric space heater to keep the drugs and fluids warm. Tones roll for a job and if you forget to unplug your good to go.....only downside was when it was windy and snowy we would have to close the back window on the cord to prevent snowdrifts in the patient compartment

This was for 2 reasons.....1 the company was too cheap to get a proper set-up.....and 2 it was a simple fix.....

But if you really want a decent shore line system....look into "Auto-Eject" they have some pretty reasonable equipment that is very reliable and very tough. Unfortunately...it's not cheap if I remember correctly.

Post by **Code3Response** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 8:00 am

Yes - I was DEFINEATELY going for an auto-eject. Im not too familiar with the systems - Im not sure on price - I was looking for dealers or others who might now. THanks!

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 8:47 am

Check out Kausmaul.com I think or similar goofy german spelling. They sell all sorts of battery and shore line items. That's what we have on our fire and ems rigs. Works great but not cheap. They sell for about $700

Post by **alex** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 9:14 am

Keep in mind that auto eject plugs are usually rated only up to ~20 amps worth of current. (at least most that I have seen).

-Alex
http://www.kussmaul.com/ejector.htm

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 12:49 pm

I would hope you don't need more than 20 amps for trickle charging and battery float chargers.

jim · Post by **jim** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:01 am

The Auto-Eject comes in two flavors- weatherproof or semi-weatherproof. If you mount it through the body where the rear of the plug is out of the weather (like in a Suburban's quarter panel), use the open design. If you put it through a front fender or other area that will expose the rear to the weather, you need the closed design.

The Autocharge 12 is a great unit to use for what you are doing. It has a max output of 15 amps and WILL NOT overcharge. This unit will not only keep the vehicle battery up, but it will charge anything else added such as radios, lights, cameras, etc. This is exactly the same unit I use in any single battery vehicle.
The Autocharge 12 sells for: $273.00 + shipping
If you have a Diesel Suburban or Excusion or other factory equipped dual-battery vehicle, this charger will also work, as these OEM setups use a parallel battery configuration.

The Auto-Eject semi-weatherproof unit is: $135.00+ shipping and comes in several available colors.
The weatherproof unit is: $180.00+ shipping.
Both are rated at 15A @ 120V
There IS a 30A/12V plug available, but it uses it's own plug. This is great until you park somewhere other than your garage.

For cable, just go to Home Depot or any other supplier and pick up heavy wall service cable (this is the same cable used to make a heavy type extension cord) for the 120V service. Use 14/2.

For the 12V run, use trailer brake cable. It's a paired #12 cable and it's available from Del City or any other auto electric supplier. Fuse BOTH ENDS of this cable.

I'm a dealer for Kussmaul, so if you need these, I can drop ship directly to you.

KitN1MCC · Post by **KitN1MCC** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 6:56 pm

i wish they made a style so i dont have to cut a hole for one. I would like to have one for my Block heater.

My Dad moved the truck the other day left it pluged in. but luckly only the extension cord broke

Post by **Code3Response** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:34 pm

SO Jim - the whole package I would need is only $273 + ship? I wouldnt need any other external battery chargers, etc? That is the AUTO eject model, correct? How exactly does that work, anyway?

KG6EAQ · Post by **KG6EAQ** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:07 pm

When you turn on the car it uses the same power that starts the engine and spits out the plug. Pretty simple!

Post by **Code3Response** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:33 pm

No kidding? LOL. I meant how does it actually repel the plug out of the socket? Ive heard it shoots it out with quite some force! Electromagnetism or what?

KG6EAQ · Post by **KG6EAQ** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:36 pm

Aaahh ok, i thought you meant what it does. The one at work is a VERY strong spring (the cord has nailed me on the chest when working on the van). I don't recall who makes it but the second the van cranks over it's shot out.

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 9:27 pm

That would be auto inject. When watching a demonstration once on a brand new unit a salesman fired a plug (without electrical cord attached) 48 feet with one of those. They are not a force to be reconned(sp?) with. Just something to be aware of. But they do break in quickly and will just pop out hard enough to clear the side of the vehicle. And if you contact a local ambulance for fire apparatus salesman or manufacturer they would be able to set you up with one.

Post by **alex** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 5:52 am

One of my friends learned this the hard way.

I was sitting in our ambulance waiting for the rest of my crew to goto dinner. Our crew chief was busy showing someone something in the back of the flycar (2001 tahoe). The driver trainee for the shift decided to help get things moving he'd do the driver portion of the vehilce check for the medic. He went to start the truck, and all I could see about 10 seconds later was my crew cheif rolling on the ground laughing uncontrolably.

Turned out that the shore line fired and knocked someone in the nuts. He was ok and was laughing equally as hard.

Lesson Learned? Don't mount the auto eject box at that height. Making sure your crew is also clear isn't that bad an idea either.

-Alex

ptemplin · Post by **ptemplin** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 5:58 am

It's http://www.kussmaul.com for the auto-eject stuff, and the various battery chargers.

If you're charging portables, flashlights, etc., I'd highly recommend going with one of the battery chargers that includes an appropriately-sized battery saver (or a separate unit). A "battery saver" is more accurately a "battery charger saver", as it removes the loads of the rechargers from the battery and battery charger while the vehicle is connected to the shore line, and powers them directly with 12V off a different circuit. This way, the battery charger can properly charge the batteries as they get closer to "full" (the current flow will approach 0 amps, instead of approaching the draw of the portables, etc.).

Also, I would highly, highly recommend using 3-wire cable (hot, neutral, ground) for a project like this, and 12 gauge is a must if you're running 20 amps and/or making a long run. Consider 12/3 SJ ("super jacket"), as it's oil resistant and well protected.

On the 30-amp auto-eject, although the plug at the auto-eject is proprietary, you can stick any plug you want at the "house" end, so don't worry about that.

jim · Post by **jim** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 8:11 am

Hot, neutral and ground cable is called 12/2 or 14/2
12/3 would have 2 hots, a ground and a neutral.
This is what it's called in the commercial electric world.
Anyway....you're correct. Use cable with a ground.

ptemplin · Post by **ptemplin** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 8:26 am

Indoor Romex has two insulated conductors and a third grounding cable inside the outer sheath. For some reason, that's called 12/2 or 14/2, possibly because the grounding cable isn't the same gauge as the primary conductors.

For outdoor (flexible) use, SO/SJ/SJO cable gives each conductor its own insulation, as well as using an oil-resistant outer jacket. The ground cable is the same gauge as the hot & neutral, so they count the conductor. I have some SO 12/3 and SJ 14/4 at the house, and they are 3 and 4 conductor respectively.

(And, even though I'm not a lawyer, we should tell people to actually connect the grounding lead to the correct pins. Telling them to use cable with a ground might not be interpreted properly in some states.)

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 11:35 am

How many amps do all the things you need to power with the engine off draw? All those Kussmal things are great but depending on your use, it may be a bit excessive for the price. There are probably other devices that will do it for significantly less $$ if you don't have a huge load.

Example, on my personal vehicle I just use the NAPA "Onboard Automatic Battery Charger". It is only 1.5 amps but that is fine for my uses. It will turn on and off and raise/lower the current as needed. There is an LED that indicates "Charging", "Almost Charged", and a "Fully Charged". For me, it works perfect and was only $30.00. I'm sure there is a higher current model available that might meet your needs that won't break the bank.

As for plugging it in? Well I took an odd approach. I mounted the unit behind the driver seat and ran wire to the battery. When I got home, I put the extension cord in the door, plugged it in, and shut the door on the extension cord. There is NO WAY I could forget about un-plugging it with a giant yellow cord in my face as I get in.

ptemplin · Post by **ptemplin** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 11:42 am

Keep in mind that the metal body of most vehicles provides not only a sharp edge to cut the wires but also a conductive surface to cause a short circuit. If anything, find a way to get some cable out of the body and remount a plug on the end. Run the cable to the side/end of the vehicle you'll be initially driving away from, so at least the plug will release itself.

I was considering a Kussmaul battery charger that drew 4.5 amps, a battery saver that drew 2.5 amps, and a block heater that draws 10 (if it's on).

Post by **HumHead** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 12:19 pm

While I have never had to install the things, I've been dealing with the Auto Ejects on ambulances for a bunch of years, and have picked up a few bits of wisdom in the process.

When the units are new, the ejection can be quite "spirited". We used to have a game of backing in the ambulance to line up with the steel columns in the garage so, the next time the bus was started, you got the satisfying "ping" of the plug hitting the steel. However, with time, and heavy useage, they can become a little less reliable. As a result, our policy is to manually unplug the line, and use the Auto Eject feature as a backup.

We have also learned to mount the drop from the ceiling even with the driver's front window, which obliges the driver to deal with the shoreline before entering the vehicle. We use 14/3 SJO cable, and attach it to the ceiling with a "chinese handcuff" type strain relief connected to a solidly anchored eye hook.

We size the drops with just enough cord that the plug is just above the rear bumper when hanging free. We had one driver, in particular, who had an uncanny gift for catching the cord between the body and the rear bumper and slicing the plug right off, accompanied by a shower of sparks, as he pulled out.

Finally, if the plug does fail to eject, the receptacle is usually perpendicular to the vehicle's line of motion, and the cable will usually fail before the plug comes out. We now build the last 12" as a 12" extension, so that if the ambulance is moved with the plug in, the inline plug will seperate before anything is damaged, and the chucklehead driver will be headed down the road with the 12" break-away banging against the side of the bus as a "motivational reminder" about remembering to unplug.

ptemplin · Post by **ptemplin** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 1:53 pm

I agree with those sentiments about Auto-Ejects having trouble. It's no wonder that there are two of them on my department's rescue truck, no doubt that the first one had failed but someone felt it was easier to mount a new one.

Depending on the vehicle, it might make sense to include a "sensor" on the shore line circuit in the vehicle's "Door Open" warning system.

ptemplin · Post by **ptemplin** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 2:00 pm

And to answer one of the original questions, inserting the cable into the unit compresses a spring. Once all the way in, a solenoid holds the spring cocked and ready. Turning the key energizes the solenoid to retract, getting out of the way of the happy spring.

videonerd · Post by **videonerd** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:25 pm

Example, on my personal vehicle I just use the NAPA "Onboard Automatic Battery Charger". It is only 1.5 amps but that is fine for my uses. It will turn on and off and raise/lower the current as needed. There is an LED that indicates "Charging", "Almost Charged", and a "Fully Charged". For me, it works perfect and was only $30.00. I'm sure there is a higher current model available that might meet your needs that won't break the bank.[/quote]

Does anyone know the part number for this NAPA "Onboard Automatic Battery Charger"? I can't find a thing on it on the NAPA website.

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:33 pm

videonerd wrote:Example, on my personal vehicle I just use the NAPA "Onboard Automatic Battery Charger". It is only 1.5 amps but that is fine for my uses. It will turn on and off and raise/lower the current as needed. There is an LED that indicates "Charging", "Almost Charged", and a "Fully Charged". For me, it works perfect and was only $30.00. I'm sure there is a higher current model available that might meet your needs that won't break the bank.

Does anyone know the part number for this NAPA "Onboard Automatic Battery Charger"? I can't find a thing on it on the NAPA website.[/quote]

Digging are we?

I use that one too. Works great.

EOppegaard · Post by **EOppegaard** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:13 pm

Matt I have one from the subaru, I will take a look at it tomorrow and see if I can pull a number off of it.

jayres · Post by **jayres** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:52 pm

As a side note, we have 3 (yes, 3) shorelines on our new engine with Aut-Ejects). Some of the guys are bad about just hopping in and fire ing up to here the loud *CHINK* and take off... They are definitely nice to have, and are a great backup in case you forget to unplug. We have them on all of our apparatus now.

The Comish · Post by **The Comish** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:16 pm

Have you thought about putting a timer, such as a power tamer, in and have the orange lead trigger a 100 AMP continuous duty solonoid which powers your equipment. They can be set for variable times We have had great success with them. Set them for an hour or so once the car turns off it will keep the portables charging to top them off, the shuts off, thus killing all the power to the equipment. Start the car and your power is restored.

A lot cheaper than a shoreline...

http://www.copelandengineering.com/powe ... iring.html

http://www.mega-technical.com/html/prod ... mervs.html

Looking for a shore line....

Looking for a shore line....

Why not use a timer?