Quantar station failure

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IjeSJot
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:24 am
What radios do you own?: 2x GP380, 2x GM360

Quantar station failure

Post by IjeSJot »

Hi!

I`ve got Motorola Quantar repeater, it should work in UHF R2 band (440-470MHz) but actually, after power up station LED`s indicate "Station Fail". I can`t comunicate with repeater using RSS. Any ideas what could be wrong? I`ve heard about "RSS only mode", how can I enable it during power up test?
My station, after powering up, acts like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n_53JlV-Hw
Maybe there are some missing parts? What about "Non-volatile memory simm" ? Controller board looks like this: Image


Regards, Kamil.
wa6ylb
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:33 pm

Re: Quantar station failure

Post by wa6ylb »

From your photo; I see a couple of things, not really wrong per se.


Your board has four program eproms / flash roms installed (I can't tell, as the labels are not clear enough). Since there is
something in these four sockets, there won't be an 80 pin flash eprom simm installed. If you somehow came up with
a simm device with current firmware, then the four eproms would be removed.
Also the 24/28 pin socket near the rear of the board is for the -9V generator IC - since its not on the board, this board won't talk via 10Base2 for upgrades. Probably a call to big M is in order...
IjeSJot
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:24 am
What radios do you own?: 2x GP380, 2x GM360

Re: Quantar station failure

Post by IjeSJot »

Thank you for reply! If You want to see better resolution photo, click here: http://www.isj.pl/quantar_ctrl.jpg

Regards, Kamil.
Batwings21
Posts: 930
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:21 am

Re: Quantar station failure

Post by Batwings21 »

That looks like rss only mode to me. It will go through self test, then you will have the station fail, pa fail and wl fail lit. Then the wl fail will flicker green every so often. Are you sure you are using a good cable, it should be a null modem cable. Its not uncommon for quantars to end up in rss only mode on their own, then you have to use rss to get them out of it. I think there is also a front panel command to put it into it but I don't recall.
IjeSJot
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:24 am
What radios do you own?: 2x GP380, 2x GM360

Re: Quantar station failure

Post by IjeSJot »

Ok, thanks for reply. It looks like that problem is solved. DOS RSS didn`t work with station but newer windows software is working properly. I had to program default codeplug and repeater started!
But now there is another problem, when I turn off station for e.g few hours, it loses all programmed data (even time and date). After powering up it acts like before (Station Fail), and then I must reprogram codeplug and after reset it starts working. Maybe there is backup battery required on controller board? System log says:

Code: Select all

1900/01/01.00:04:26		1900/01/01.00:04:26		1		 WL MANAGE_WL_ERRORS 0 FATAL RESET_FROM_UNINIT_VECTOR		
1900/01/01.00:04:26		1900/01/01.00:04:26		1		 WL ROOT 602 SWARE INITIALIZATION_FAILURE		
Firmware versions:
Image

Any ideas?
Regards, Kamil.
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d119
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Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2002 4:00 pm

Re: Quantar station failure

Post by d119 »

That, or the EEPROM on the board is starting to go flaky. The programming data for the Quantar is stored in "Non-Volatile" EEPROM, and requires no battery backup. I've never heard of a station losing it's programming like that, but the first thing I would suspect would be the EEPROM itself.

This is different from the station firmware EPROMS, which are likely OTP one-shot type things in the case of this board, which by the way, looks to be fairly old.

It's also possible that you have capacitors that are going out of tolerance and/or leaking. The Spectra series mobiles suffered from leaky capacitors, but they aren't the only Motorola product that experiences this issue. I have TTOMI cards from Centracom dispatch consoles that have leaking capacitors. I wouldn't be surprised if certain Quantar boards did the same thing.

If you power up the station and leave it on for a while while it's in la-la land, and then reboot it, does it start to work without having to be reprogrammed?

My suggestion would be to take a look around on eBay and see if you can find a replacement Station Control card. That should solve all of your problems. Preferably something like an EPIC V card, though that model is pretty new and I haven't seen any on eBay. Be careful of what you buy, though. Some very old Station Control cards are VSELP digital and not IMBE, and others are for DSS-III or DataTAC stations, and still others are analog only.

With regards to your "non volatile memory simm", the others are correct. Firmware was initially offered for these boards in the form of OTP EPROMS, like you have. Later versions came on a SIMM, and you removed the OTP EPROMS and installed the SIMM to upgrade the firmware.

Once you get the thing working reliably, your second move should be to get rid of that ONAN power supply you have in there before it flames out on you :).
IjeSJot
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:24 am
What radios do you own?: 2x GP380, 2x GM360

Re: Quantar station failure

Post by IjeSJot »

Thank You for detailed information!
That, or the EEPROM on the board is starting to go flaky. The programming data for the Quantar is stored in "Non-Volatile" EEPROM, and requires no battery backup. I've never heard of a station losing it's programming like that, but the first thing I would suspect would be the EEPROM itself.
Which EEPROM stores programming data? I found X28HC64, maybe this one?
Did forum search and found: http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.p ... 47#p385247
But what EEPROM needs to be replaced?
If you power up the station and leave it on for a while while it's in la-la land, and then reboot it, does it start to work without having to be reprogrammed?
After todays tests, I can see that there is no rule... After unpluging it from mains and few minutes, station can`t start. After few restarts there is a chance that it boots normally... Sometimes it starts with absolutely no problems after few hours... :)
Once you get the thing working reliably, your second move should be to get rid of that ONAN power supply you have in there before it flames out on you .
I`ve heard about it :) Thanks for advice :)
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The Pager Geek
Posts: 1250
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 10:31 pm
What radios do you own?: Disney FRS

Re: Quantar station failure

Post by The Pager Geek »

The codeplug prom is right behind the pushbutton next to the LED's on the front of the card.

If it is a Xicor prom, you should replace it with an ATMEL. Xicor proms have a few issues (to make a long story short.)

Good Luck
tpg
Experienced Provider of Useless Information
IjeSJot
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:24 am
What radios do you own?: 2x GP380, 2x GM360

Re: Quantar station failure

Post by IjeSJot »

Ok, so it`s XICOR`s X28HC64. Thank You. Can I replace it with ATMEL 28C64? What about data inside EEPROM? Read old memory with external programmer and save into for e.g *.bin and program new memory? I don`t want to lose alingment data...

Regards, Kamil.
wa6ylb
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:33 pm

Re: Quantar station failure

Post by wa6ylb »

IjeSJot wrote:Ok, so it`s XICOR`s X28HC64. Thank You. Can I replace it with ATMEL 28C64? What about data inside EEPROM? Read old memory with external programmer and save into for e.g *.bin and program new memory? I don`t want to lose alingment data...

Regards, Kamil.
You should be able to put a different 28C64 in the socket and the firmware will tell you that the eprom was corrupt and it will initialize it for use. I did this when changing a simular command board into being an AstroTac3000 board it told me it initialized the eprom for use. Whew! You won't loose anything, you can always put the old one back in.

B.
IjeSJot
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:24 am
What radios do you own?: 2x GP380, 2x GM360

Re: Quantar station failure

Post by IjeSJot »

Hi!

I`ve replaced bad memory with new X28HC64, rewritten codeplug and aligment... and it looks like that problem is solved!
Thank You everyone for help!

Regards, Kamil SQ8ISJ.
Lake Effect
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:47 am

Re: Quantar station failure

Post by Lake Effect »

Bringing back an old thread here. I have just come across a Quantar station with the exact problem described above. A search on Digi-key shows 120 matches to the part number 28c64. Many can be discarded because they are not square in the picture but several remain as a possibility. Can anyone narrow down my search for a replacement? Which one have you used that was successful?

L.E.
IjeSJot
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:24 am
What radios do you own?: 2x GP380, 2x GM360

Re: Quantar station failure

Post by IjeSJot »

You must use X28HC64 in PLCC package only. I found it on digikey page under X28HC64J-90-ND part number. I don`t recall of hand if original memory has the same speed but 90ns should work OK. Remember that after replacing EEPROM memory You need to re-align Your station!
Lake Effect
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:47 am

Re: Quantar station failure

Post by Lake Effect »

Got it. Thanks for the reply.

L.E.
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