Aeroflex (IFR) Questions

Post by **Wowbagger** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:54 am

svales96 wrote:Hello, I have a COM-120B, the problem is that, when testing a radio's frequency, it is giving a lecture and suddenly it gives another different and lower lecture, could the problem be in the reciever tray?

I am not sure what you mean by "a lecture" - do you mean a reading? and if so, what reading? RF error, power level, deviation, or what?

Post by **KN4HH** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:18 pm

Thanks for the information. Is it possible to remove whatever options are preventing the 1600S receiver from operating in ssb mode?

Post by **svales96** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:09 am

Sorry, I mean, we are using the COM120-B to calibrate some radios but, sometimes when it is showing us the RF measurement, it suddenly shows a different and lower one.
I hope you can help us, I would really appreciate it.

Thank you!

Post by **Wowbagger** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:57 pm

KN4HH wrote:Thanks for the information. Is it possible to remove whatever options are preventing the 1600S receiver from operating in ssb mode?

It wouldn't matter if you disable the NAMPS option - if you have that option you don't have the hardware installed to support SSB.

Post by **Wowbagger** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:58 pm

svales96 wrote:Sorry, I mean, we are using the COM120-B to calibrate some radios but, sometimes when it is showing us the RF measurement, it suddenly shows a different and lower one.
I hope you can help us, I would really appreciate it.

Thank you!

Which measurement?

Post by **svales96** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:51 pm

Of what we have plugged to T/R RF IN/OUT.

Post by **KN4HH** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:24 am

Wowbagger wrote:
KN4HH wrote:Thanks for the information. Is it possible to remove whatever options are preventing the 1600S receiver from operating in ssb mode?
It wouldn't matter if you disable the NAMPS option - if you have that option you don't have the hardware installed to support SSB.

I'm sorry to ask elementary questions but I am having trouble understanding the 1600S configuration. The OEM data sheet specifies that NAMPS is not an option but rather a part of the basic unit. The data sheet goes on to give SSB mode specifics such as LSB,USB and their respective bandwidths. Am I to understand that the customer must specify not only options but also basic functions.
Thanks so much for your insight. It is very much appreciated.

Post by **Wowbagger** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:26 am

KN4HH wrote:
Wowbagger wrote: I'm sorry to ask elementary questions but I am having trouble understanding the 1600S configuration. The OEM data sheet specifies that NAMPS is not an option but rather a part of the basic unit. The data sheet goes on to give SSB mode specifics such as LSB,USB and their respective bandwidths. Am I to understand that the customer must specify not only options but also basic functions.
Thanks so much for your insight. It is very much appreciated.

I will admit I may be wrong on the 1600 (I can check with folks at work next week) but on the COM120-B borrow band AMPS needed a different filter, an I believe that is the case on the 1600 as well - AMPS is built in, but I think Names needs a filter. Likewise, I know SSB requires option hardware on the COM120-B, and I think that's the case on the 1600 as well.

Post by **Wowbagger** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:30 am

svales96 wrote:Of what we have plugged to T/R RF IN/OUT.

The COM120-B can make about twenty different measurements on a radio, like I said in my first reply. I need you to be specific about which measurement you are having problems with: frequency error, power, deviation, or what.

Post by **KN4HH** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:20 am

Wowbagger wrote:
KN4HH wrote:
Wowbagger wrote: I'm sorry to ask elementary questions but I am having trouble understanding the 1600S configuration. The OEM data sheet specifies that NAMPS is not an option but rather a part of the basic unit. The data sheet goes on to give SSB mode specifics such as LSB,USB and their respective bandwidths. Am I to understand that the customer must specify not only options but also basic functions.
Thanks so much for your insight. It is very much appreciated.
I will admit I may be wrong on the 1600 (I can check with folks at work next week) but on the COM120-B borrow band AMPS needed a different filter, an I believe that is the case on the 1600 as well - AMPS is built in, but I think Names needs a filter. Likewise, I know SSB requires option hardware on the COM120-B, and I think that's the case on the 1600 as well.

Thank you. I have attempted to leave Aeroflex technical support a message on their site. I will see what they advise me regarding the 1600S configuration. I sent them a message under my L.L.C so hopefully I will get a response. I don't want to bog you down with any research so I'll see what the technical support folks provide.
Again I appreciate your willingness to assist us on this reflector.

Post by **svales96** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:59 pm

Wowbagger wrote:
svales96 wrote:Of what we have plugged to T/R RF IN/OUT.
The COM120-B can make about twenty different measurements on a radio, like I said in my first reply. I need you to be specific about which measurement you are having problems with: frequency error, power, deviation, or what.

Frequency error

Post by **Wowbagger** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:10 pm

svales96 wrote: Frequency error

Frequency error takes time to settle, especially after keying the radio. The first readings will contaminated by the lack of carrier - give it a couple of seconds to make the reading. Also, if there is any modulation of the signal - voice, CTCSS, data, or whatever - you will need to increase the measurement time to be larger than any modulation's rate of change, so as to average out the effects of the modulation.

Post by **KN4HH** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:33 am

I saw an inquiry posted back in 2009 asking for 1600S option definitions. I did not see a reply with the information so I will ask if anyone has been able to find out anything. My 1600S has options 21, 35, and 36. I would like to know their definition.
Many thanks and Happy new Year to all.

Post by **billragsdale** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:51 pm

On an IFR 1900 CSA, Serial 4100, Ver 4.00 [4-28-1999] is the VGA monitor port active? Is a menu selection needed to activate? The VGA connector shows no output. Mine has a small metal plate over the connector.

Thanks, Bill Ragsdale K6KN.

jry · Post by **jry** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:28 am

always active. Plate is there to protect the contacts from dirt and damage.
There is a cable internal that may have gotten disconnected or you have an issue on the video card

jry · Post by **jry** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:38 pm

but chances are it's something external in your setup if the main display is working OK

Post by **KN4HH** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:57 pm

Sorry, folks, I have another elementary question. The stickers on my 1600S indicate that options 21, 35, and 36 are installed. However, when I go to the Configuration Report, only option 20 is displayed. Is it safe to assume that the only option currently installed is indeed 20?
Thanks for the education.

Post by **svales96** » Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:00 am

Wowbagger wrote:
Frequency error takes time to settle, especially after keying the radio. The first readings will contaminated by the lack of carrier - give it a couple of seconds to make the reading. Also, if there is any modulation of the signal - voice, CTCSS, data, or whatever - you will need to increase the measurement time to be larger than any modulation's rate of change, so as to average out the effects of the modulation.

Ok, thank you very much for the advice, we'll try that.

Greetings from the south!

jry · Post by **jry** » Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:55 am

the option field on the configuration report shows the software option field. Usually this is 00000002 which has the file system enabled. Believe the rest of the bits there are for cellular protocols or options...not really that useful anymore IMHO.
Bottom line is that the option bits do not have to reflect the tag which may have other HW items like the HS OCXO and the expansion box capabilities ( once again really for cellular and obsolete ).
If you go to user files you may not be able to see anything if the option is really 20 since the internal file system is not enabled.
This is needed for other software like EasyScan and EasySweep that run internal to the 1600 and installed separately.

Post by **Wowbagger** » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:39 pm

KN4HH wrote:Sorry, folks, I have another elementary question. The stickers on my 1600S indicate that options 21, 35, and 36 are installed. However, when I go to the Configuration Report, only option 20 is displayed. Is it safe to assume that the only option currently installed is indeed 20?
Thanks for the education.

No, it is not safe. Some options that are purely hardware won't show up in the software list (e.g. there are options for different frequency references - TCXO, OCXO, Rubidium standard - they don't have a software impact and aren't listed in the software).

Post by **KN4HH** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:56 am

jry wrote:the option field on the configuration report shows the software option field. Usually this is 00000002 which has the file system enabled. Believe the rest of the bits there are for cellular protocols or options...not really that useful anymore IMHO.
Bottom line is that the option bits do not have to reflect the tag which may have other HW items like the HS OCXO and the expansion box capabilities ( once again really for cellular and obsolete ).
If you go to user files you may not be able to see anything if the option is really 20 since the internal file system is not enabled.
This is needed for other software like EasyScan and EasySweep that run internal to the 1600 and installed separately.

Thanks so much for the explanation of the configuration report readout. So now I will continue my quest to find an option definition for what is installed. Two weeks since I sent an inquiry to Aeroflex.

Post by **KN4HH** » Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:02 am

Wowbagger wrote:
KN4HH wrote:Sorry, folks, I have another elementary question. The stickers on my 1600S indicate that options 21, 35, and 36 are installed. However, when I go to the Configuration Report, only option 20 is displayed. Is it safe to assume that the only option currently installed is indeed 20?
Thanks for the education.
No, it is not safe. Some options that are purely hardware won't show up in the software list (e.g. there are options for different frequency references - TCXO, OCXO, Rubidium standard - they don't have a software impact and aren't listed in the software).

Many thanks, Wowbagger. Is there any way that the box can detect and report the hardware configuration?

Post by **Wowbagger** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:24 am

KN4HH wrote: Many thanks, Wowbagger. Is there any way that the box can detect and report the hardware configuration?

Again, not always.

msingewald · Post by **msingewald** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:28 am

Hello All,

I have a 1600S who's Spectrum Analyzer seems to have an issue. When I set the Scan to 10MHz or wider, the display shows about 8 signals of equal amplitude and equal spacing. This is with a 50 ohm load on the antenna input. If I try to scroll the frequency towards the peaks, they disappear as they get close to the center frequency.

We pulled the power supply and checked the capacitors, and they all checked out. Anything else I should be looking at?

Thanks for any help.

fineshot1 · Post by **fineshot1** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:21 am

I have an IFR 1900 that i use for amateur radio and commercial/public safety radio repair usage.
The TR connector has a warning label of a 50W max and some of the base stations i may need
to connect up to that connector are about 100W or 110W so i am assuming i am gonna need an
attenuator of about 30DB/100W on the TR connector before attempting that. What is normally
used in this configuration(attenuator wise)? It seems to me a 3DB range would be too much of a
risk if the transmitter power out is more than thought to be.

Post by **Wowbagger** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:40 pm

If you can get a 6dB or 10dB pad you will probably be much happier, since you will have a degree of safety margin.

OR, you can go the cheap-easy-sleazy approach: if you have an oil-filled dummy load (e.g. the MFJ), you can put a BNC connector into it, and put a small probe loop inside. That will couple to the RF, and give you an uncalibrated, but attenuated signal out.

Then, you can perform a calibration at the frequency of interest: take your HT, put it on that frequency, feed it directly into the service monitor, and take a power reading. Then, feed it into the dummy load, and connect your newly added probe port to the service monitor, and measure the level that way. Subtract one from the other (in dBm, of course) and you get the attenuation of the can. You can now run the measurements.

I did that when I was working on a 300W tube PA with my COM-120B.

You can also do something like that if you have an isotee (e.g. http://urgentcomm.com/test-and-measurem ... -one-these, or if you have a Pomona connector kit (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Pom ... 5LgHWzRSbj)), you can use the isotee and a dummy load to do the same thing.

(if you have a 1900, you REALLY should get the Pomona kit - best $370 you will ever spend.)

Will · Post by **Will** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:05 pm

We use the type N ISO T which is from RF Connectors.

fineshot1 · Post by **fineshot1** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:54 am

Wowbagger wrote:If you can get a 6dB or 10dB pad you will probably be much happier, since you will have a degree of safety margin.

OR, you can go the cheap-easy-sleazy approach: if you have an oil-filled dummy load (e.g. the MFJ), you can put a BNC connector into it, and put a small probe loop inside. That will couple to the RF, and give you an uncalibrated, but attenuated signal out.

Then, you can perform a calibration at the frequency of interest: take your HT, put it on that frequency, feed it directly into the service monitor, and take a power reading. Then, feed it into the dummy load, and connect your newly added probe port to the service monitor, and measure the level that way. Subtract one from the other (in dBm, of course) and you get the attenuation of the can. You can now run the measurements.

I did that when I was working on a 300W tube PA with my COM-120B.

You can also do something like that if you have an isotee (e.g. http://urgentcomm.com/test-and-measurem ... -one-these, or if you have a Pomona connector kit (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Pom ... 5LgHWzRSbj)), you can use the isotee and a dummy load to do the same thing.

Thanks WB - i will most likely go with the 10dB attenuator pad
(if you have a 1900, you REALLY should get the Pomona kit - best $370 you will ever spend.)

msingewald · Post by **msingewald** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:42 pm

Looking at this more closely, I see that the phantom spikes are connected to the Scan setting.

If I have the analyzer set for 5 MHz, the first spikes are 5 MHz above and below center frequency and then the next spikes are 10 MHz away from those. If I use a scan of 10 MHz, the spikes are 10 MHz away from center and the next ones are 30 away from those. Using a scan of less than 1 MHz doesn't reveal any spikes.

Any suggestions?

msingewald wrote:Hello All,

I have a 1600S who's Spectrum Analyzer seems to have an issue. When I set the Scan to 10MHz or wider, the display shows about 8 signals of equal amplitude and equal spacing. This is with a 50 ohm load on the antenna input. If I try to scroll the frequency towards the peaks, they disappear as they get close to the center frequency.

We pulled the power supply and checked the capacitors, and they all checked out. Anything else I should be looking at?

Thanks for any help.

Post by **scotto** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:25 pm

Hello,
I know about the capacitor plague in the com-120's, but which type of Tantrums do you recommend? There are so many varieties such as ESR, Tolerances, Temp. and so on. I only want to it once. I have two 120A's and one 120B. Only the A's have this cap problem.
Thanks for any help
ScottO

Post by **scotto** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:16 am

Hello,
I'm replacing caps in our COM-120A's.
What type of Tatum caps do you recommend for replacements on the audio, digital, and base band boards?
There are many varieties of them such as ESR, tolerances, heat range, ect.
Thank you for any help.
Scott
KC7BAE

Post by **Wowbagger** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:43 am

ESR and heat range I wouldn't get excited over - what you put in will likely be as good if not better than what is there now.

Keep to about 10V for things like the baseband tray (unless what is there is already rated for more than 10V).

Post by **drdslam** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:15 pm

The COM-120 series was never my field but i did see them and spent a little time with them. There was a series of spec an's that used the exact same front panel layout but different displays, and although the case was of the same shape and used the same back panel more or less, they were 100 percent different.Other than the front and back-and one had a longer case-the internals were totally different. As was the power supply.

At any rate if there were enough COM-120s in the field to make it worth the while, I'd bet a Rasberry Pi would have more CPU power than the original tray by a wide margin and someone ( a good embedded programmer) could/ought just write a whole new software suite for it. As long as they didnt use Aeroflex code Aeroflex would have F-all to say about it. I think the service manual and a few hours spent decoding the I/O to the various other trays would enable someone to code a whole new software suite in a few days with modern toolsets. I don't know if the Ras has enough I/O select lines but you could fit a Ras (credit card size) and a big multiplexed I/O board in there. They could then put in all the options the hardware fit could support unless you needed something under license like EDACS....do they still use that?

You could also do all the stuff the set should have but didnt because they didn't want it competing with the avionics boxes or higher $ units.

WA6OXN · Post by **WA6OXN** » Mon May 04, 2015 8:56 pm

Wowbagger,

I'm just curious if IFR/AEROFLEX/COBHAM here in the USA can repair all the analyzers that Cobham sells now, including the LTE test sets?

Or, is there a list of analyzers/test sets that are set here for the USA and the others go overseas to England?

I have a client that has an Aeroflex 7100 LTE test set that just sits as their "not sure" about it being in calibration.

So I kind of started thinking about how Motorola started shipping repairs across the border...

What say you?

Post by **Wowbagger** » Tue May 05, 2015 3:42 am

WA6OXN wrote:Wowbagger,

I'm just curious if IFR/AEROFLEX/COBHAM here in the USA can repair all the analyzers that Cobham sells now, including the LTE test sets?

Or, is there a list of analyzers/test sets that are set here for the USA and the others go overseas to England?

I have a client that has an Aeroflex 7100 LTE test set that just sits as their "not sure" about it being in calibration.

So I kind of started thinking about how Motorola started shipping repairs across the border...

What say you?

Anything currently sold we can cal in Wichita.

rangrdoug · Post by **rangrdoug** » Fri May 08, 2015 5:54 pm

Ok, I know this is a longshot but I'm going to throw it out to the group. I am in need of a front cover for a 1200 S . Anyone have one collecting dust they would part with? Or know where I can get one?

Thanks

fineshot1 · Post by **fineshot1** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:34 am

I had a strange thing happen with my IFR 1900CSA. I usually do not leave it plugged in
when not in use and it has since i got it(2 or 3 years ago) always worked well and out of
the blue this happened. Yesterday i turned it on and prior to that it had been plugged in
to my APC 2200 UPS over night by accident. When i powered it up the display was upside
down and there were horizontal lines all through it. I turned it off and much later turned
it back on after plugging it back in to MY UPS power and it was working fine.
Perhaps a power supply issue?

Post by **Wowbagger** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:20 pm

fineshot1 wrote: When i powered it up the display was upside
down and there were horizontal lines all through it. I turned it off and much later turned
it back on after plugging it back in to MY UPS power and it was working fine.
Perhaps a power supply issue?

Sounds like the actual LCD panel got a glitch when you switched it on, glitching the lines that control inverting the display and the display scaling. When you switched off and back on it reset.

That's a weird one - I didn't see that behavior when we first did the conversion from the Trinitron bottle in the 1600 to the LCD on the 1900.

Post by **n0czv** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:07 pm

I am looking for the spinning encoder for a 1600S, part number in the manual is a Panasonic EWT-XAAS2025B. Google searches have been fruitless. The original is in two pieces

I am hoping that Aeroflex has them. Any suggestions for getting ahold of someone, and would they sell me one?

I had ordered parts from IFR years ago for a 1000, a pre A model, with a phone call.....

Thanks

Steve, N0CZV

Post by **thedeval** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:59 am

fineshot1 wrote:I had a strange thing happen with my IFR 1900CSA. I usually do not leave it plugged in
when not in use and it has since i got it(2 or 3 years ago) always worked well and out of
the blue this happened. Yesterday i turned it on and prior to that it had been plugged in
to my APC 2200 UPS over night by accident. When i powered it up the display was upside
down and there were horizontal lines all through it. I turned it off and much later turned
it back on after plugging it back in to MY UPS power and it was working fine.
Perhaps a power supply issue?

I actually have 3 units that are doing this exact thing... (one is upside down, and two are flipped/read from right to left)

If I let run for 20 mins or so, they will correct themselves all on their own....

not sure of the cause/fix... but I can confirm such an event...

Post by **lc4600** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:50 am

Com-120B or Com-120A baseband board main power supply rails are at +/- 10.5 vdc. I would use 16 volt caps
Carl NØPXJ

Post by **escomm** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:24 am

Hey Wowbagger can you get your customer service department to get their act together? I have been on hold for literally 45 minutes this morning, and then when I call the operator I get a message saying the office is closed and that normal business hours are 8am to 5pm CST. Plus the spewing message about how all agents are busy every 30 seconds....has anyone from Cobham actually ever waited on their own hold line? Good lord I don't need to be reminded every 30 seconds that Cobham doesn't have enough coverage to man the phones during normal business hours

Correct me if I am wrong, maybe my time zones are off, but the internet says the office should have opened more than an hour ago. Maybe Cobham runs off UK time or something? Good thing I only need attenuators, if I was after an actual test set I would be extremely disappointed with this disorganization and question the wisdom of spending any serious money with Cobham.

Post by **escomm** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:09 am

Oh cool these "professionals" have shut down the operation entirely til the 10th.

And nobody thinks to put it on the recorded phone message or the website or frankly anywhere else a customer can see it?

Only the MR knows why nobody answers the phone lmao, what a sad way of running a billion dollar company

Post by **xmo** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:22 pm

Fortunately, other people make attenuators!

Post by **TECH1200** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:16 am

Hello Wowbagger
I was a 1200 tech for a private company (we had 150 1200 boxes) and went to Wichita twice for training. Perhaps I can help with repair advice on the 1200's. The new place I work out of has a Com 120B with 2 problems. I have the maint./cal manual but the block diagrams help only up to a point (no I won't give out the passcode either). First the box will turn on but won't turn off with the front button. Obviously not the switch itself. It seems to end up in the controller tray. Second problem is with the analyzer display. On GEN or REC it sweeps a couple of times and then freezes and the spike is about 3.5 Mhz off center. I've looked at the coax frequencies and levels on the top of the analyzer tray and they seem OK. The box passes all selftests and otherwise works fine. On frequency on generate and receive. Any ideas. The guys in the shop have probably seen these faults a thousand times. Thanks for any insight.

Post by **Wowbagger** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:53 am

It sounds like system controller issues - that's what drives the analyzer sweep. Does the scope work? If you set the analyzer to zero span does it work? If you change the span on the analyzer does it start sweeping?

Post by **TECH1200** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:05 am

Thanks for the reply. Yes scope works. Zero span will sweep when you change ms/div. If you change span it will start sweeping then stop. Then go to zero span and change ms/div. will start to sweep continuosly. I can get it to sweep continuously only in zero span.

Post by **Wowbagger** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:49 pm

Hmph. I'm trying to remember how the differences between scope, zero span, and normal analyzer differ on the state machine that drives the sweep, and what would cause that behavior. If you go to the diagnostics page, are any of the loops showing unlocked when it stops?

Post by **TECH1200** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:51 am

AHA- Synth lock test shows analyzer unlocked. So perhaps a bad loop. Any common fault- bad components that you have heard of causing this? Caps? I don't think there is any CAL related adjustments that woul unlock a loop. Or is there? Any help will be appreciated. Hard to find at the best of times- especially without extender cables or schematics !

Post by **TECH1200** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:04 am

Peering down into the analzer tray I can see the glow of leds- probably LOCKED\UNLOCKED leds