FCC ULS street address search

[Bill_G]

Is there a way to search the FCC ULS for a specific street address?

I have a request from 25 story building owner with an antenna farm on his roof to help him determine who owns what up there. Some of it looks obviously abandoned. The cellular providers are easy to figure out. It's the numerous VHF and UHF antennas with solid mounts, good grounds, and hardline that disappears into chases he wants help identifying. Queries to his tenants have gone unanswered. The antennas may have been abandoned. A search of the active and expired licenses may yield a list of clients he could cross reference against current and past tenants before he cleans everything off.

[kb4mdz]

There is a way to search for a specific Lat & Long; with a radius search (in miles, or oooooh, km.) Just be aware that such a search won't be all inclusive; due to expired & deleted licenses, addressing errors, etc. Still kindofa crapshoot.

Are there physical boxes in any room? If they've been there a while and he's exhausted all simple routes to research, I'd be tempted to open cabinets, with the idea they're abandoned & now forfeit.

Not that a lot of companies have ever been very good about putting contact information on/in their equipment. (which, if he continues to manage an antenna farm on his roof, he should put that in the lease - equipment must be labeled with owner/operator & multiple contact information. Failure will result in turning off/lockout/expulsion/oaths against parentage).

[Bill_G]

Thanks. I think I figured out out. Advanced Search > Geosearch > plug in the additional criteria (street addy) with a 1km radius.

It yielded a *much* shorter list of possible candidates from the active, cancelled, and expired licenses, including control stations. I've possibly ID'd one already, and sent the listed admin a gleemail.

Yeah, the previous management company did a poor job of managing the rooftop. Nothing is tagged with ownership. Even the cellular cabinets are lacking information, but he knows who they are. It's the other dozen fiberglass colinear antennas, yagis, and cheap sticks with anything from well installed mounts anchored to the elevator penthouse wall, grounding, and hardline, to rusty old non-pen mounts with two brick ballast and RG58 running across the roof that he wants help with. They all disappear into various conduits down through the mechanical level floor into the tenant space. They tried having facilities tracing the conduits, but ceilings get busy, and there are lots of access panels to open. They have an audit from 2005 that lists many of these antennas as "unknown". He wants to clean it all up, and have the tenants adhere to a standard that he has to develope. He doesn't want to clear them off at his expense if they are active and in use, and he doesn't want to disrupt their service. But, he is prepared to be cold hearted about it.

[Satelite]

Hello:
Turn them off and wait see who shows up if you reach the end of your search.
Leave a note to contact new owner while your at it.
Just a suggestion.
Satelite

[kb4mdz]

Suggesting a small padlock thru one blade of the power plug, with said note to contact the new site owner before plugging in. Express that new owner will be glad to remove lock in exchange for contact info, perhaps overdue rent (which could be 'forgiven' as a good-will gesture), etc. etc.

Let us know how it works out!

[Bill_G]

Therein lay the problem guys - we can't locate the base stations. There are several antennas on the roof with cables that disappear into 25 story building conduits.

Building management sent out notices to all current tenants requiring a yes/no response, and none responded in the affirmative. One licensee, a former tenant within the last year, did state they abandoned the antenna. One of a dozen is accounted for, and it happens to be one of the professionally installed antennas. So, everything will be removed. The conduits cannot be traced. They will be cut and capped. The ground bars will stay in place.

[N4DES]

Just remember that any amateur installations will not show up on ULS as it is not required to be site licensed.

[Bill_G]

Just remember that any amateur installations will not show up on ULS as it is not required to be site licensed.

And one would hope an amateur would answer his mail.

[Jim202]

Just remember that any amateur installations will not show up on ULS as it is not required to be site licensed.

And one would hope an amateur would answer his mail.

Having done what your trying to do, the above suggestions are great. The other way to look at it is there are only so many locations on the top floor or next to the top floor where the equipment could be located. Get the floor plan of the building top floor and go locate the doors and investigate the rooms for radio cabinets. The conduit will show up. You just need to go look for it. The building management will have keys to all doors in the building. If they don't shame on them. Bring in a locksmith and solve the key problem.

Most agencies and businesses will take the lowest cost route in installing conduit. They won't run it any further than they have to. It costs big bucks to have a hole cut in concrete. This is why I say the coax will come out on the top floor or the next one down. Either way, with the building plans, you can mark out where the conduit is in the roof and then go down to the top floor and find it. Normally the top floor is an equipment floor anyway and should not have a ceiling. Just the rafters and conduits for all the electrical runs. The coax conduits will be at least a 2 inch or larger.

Jim

[Bill_G]

Just remember that any amateur installations will not show up on ULS as it is not required to be site licensed.

And one would hope an amateur would answer his mail.

Having done what your trying to do, the above suggestions are great. The other way to look at it is there are only so many locations on the top floor or next to the top floor where the equipment could be located. Get the floor plan of the building top floor and go locate the doors and investigate the rooms for radio cabinets. The conduit will show up. You just need to go look for it. The building management will have keys to all doors in the building. If they don't shame on them. Bring in a locksmith and solve the key problem.

Most agencies and businesses will take the lowest cost route in installing conduit. They won't run it any further than they have to. It costs big bucks to have a hole cut in concrete. This is why I say the coax will come out on the top floor or the next one down. Either way, with the building plans, you can mark out where the conduit is in the roof and then go down to the top floor and find it. Normally the top floor is an equipment floor anyway and should not have a ceiling. Just the rafters and conduits for all the electrical runs. The coax conduits will be at least a 2 inch or larger.

Jim

Holy cow Jim! Why didn't we think of that??? (snort)

Come on guys. I've crawled through some interesting places in this building with the facilities guys. It was very informative for everyone, but it produced nada.

PLUS every tenant responded to the management inquiry THEY HAVE NOTHING ON THE ROOF.

So, that pretty much settles it. Tag your stuff, and don't do a crappy install. Roof rights people. Respect them, or get thrown in the trash can.

[N4DES]

Just remember that any amateur installations will not show up on ULS as it is not required to be site licensed.

And one would hope an amateur would answer his mail.

Yes you would hope, but if the box isn't marked then it would be difficult to identify.

[Satelite]

Hello:
I can see where the difficulty in getting the info needed with this situation.
He has decisions to make with what info he has and it doesn't sound like he has much info as it is.
So he will have to do what he thinks is best.
Another option might be to run the add in the paper asking if anyone knows or owns or operates through the roof top radio equipment to get info and also be able to show he made an honest attempt to contact the owners to possibly cover his behind just incase an unknown agreement comes to light.
But its his building and so id think he could do what he felt was necessary.
Satelite

[Will]

Another way is to use your ol' frequency counter and key up each radio transmitter on site. Feed the frequencies and county into the FCC ULS and see what licenses come up.

[kb4mdz]

OK, backing up a little. Chases & conduits. ? How about the old electrician's trick of a shop-vac, blowing a string, or turned around and sucking air? Or,if you're blowing air from the roof, into conduits, toward the building, maybe a mild odorant introduced into the air (something pleasant, like cinnamon, or lemon, etc.)?

Antennas on the roof, but no cabinets anywhere? Or coaxes just lost in zero-space?

[Bill_G]

Just remember that any amateur installations will not show up on ULS as it is not required to be site licensed.

And one would hope an amateur would answer his mail.

Yes you would hope, but if the box isn't marked then it would be difficult to identify.

Gotta find a box first.

[Bill_G]

Hello:
I can see where the difficulty in getting the info needed with this situation.
He has decisions to make with what info he has and it doesn't sound like he has much info as it is.
So he will have to do what he thinks is best.
Another option might be to run the add in the paper asking if anyone knows or owns or operates through the roof top radio equipment to get info and also be able to show he made an honest attempt to contact the owners to possibly cover his behind just incase an unknown agreement comes to light.
But its his building and so id think he could do what he felt was necessary.
Satelite

Very little info indeed. Doubtful they would run an ad in the paper.

[Bill_G]

Another way is to use your ol' frequency counter and key up each radio transmitter on site. Feed the frequencies and county into the FCC ULS and see what licenses come up.

Gotta find a transmitter first to key it up.

[Bill_G]

OK, backing up a little. Chases & conduits. ? How about the old electrician's trick of a shop-vac, blowing a string, or turned around and sucking air? Or,if you're blowing air from the roof, into conduits, toward the building, maybe a mild odorant introduced into the air (something pleasant, like cinnamon, or lemon, etc.)?

Pushing scent down a conduit isn't a bad idea, but it is a high rent building. Doubtful they would want to prickle their tenants.

Antennas on the roof, but no cabinets anywhere? Or coaxes just lost in zero-space?

Correct. Antennas with lines that disappear into conduits never to be found again.

[escomm]

OK, so all the tenants have said they don't have anything on the roof, right? Nobody will miss the antennas when they are removed. Yank them out and you're d-u-n done

A nice guy might just cut the coax and see who calls.

[Bill_G]

OK, so all the tenants have said they don't have anything on the roof, right? Nobody will miss the antennas when they are removed. Yank them out and you're d-u-n done

A nice guy might just cut the coax and see who calls.

Yep. I think that is pretty much the plan. Strip it clean, and start over. Going forward there will probably be much tighter control over roof access, and hopefully better documentation.

[DJP126]

OK, so all the tenants have said they don't have anything on the roof, right? Nobody will miss the antennas when they are removed. Yank them out and you're d-u-n done

A nice guy might just cut the coax and see who calls.

Or disconnect the coax from the antenna and connect it to a dummy load. Give it about a week, then move to the next one.

[Bill_G]

OK, so all the tenants have said they don't have anything on the roof, right? Nobody will miss the antennas when they are removed. Yank them out and you're d-u-n done

A nice guy might just cut the coax and see who calls.

Or disconnect the coax from the antenna and connect it to a dummy load. Give it about a week, then move to the next one.

By the looks of some of these antennas, they are already dummy loads.

[Will]

OK, so all the tenants have said they don't have anything on the roof, right? Nobody will miss the antennas when they are removed. Yank them out and you're d-u-n done

A nice guy might just cut the coax and see who calls.

You have a good point there, the radios are NOT on the roof.

So I guess that a search of the top several floor for radios... I love searching for lost radios in buildings......

A lot of building top installations have a space for the radios on a lower floor.

One hospitals has the radios in a janitor closet three floors below the roof.

[KE7JFF]

I ended up doing a wild goose chase like this once. After spending a week, I found that the no longer present repeater was installed on the ground floor of a 15 story building and they ran some type of RG-213 type coax that I can't figure out exactly it is up to the roof via the elevator shaft to this nice Phelps Dodge UHF on the roof. It was pushing basically 5W out of the top and that worked! And Bill, the installer was a certain defunct cable TV company in Portland.

[Bill_G]

I ended up doing a wild goose chase like this once. After spending a week, I found that the no longer present repeater was installed on the ground floor of a 15 story building and they ran some type of RG-213 type coax that I can't figure out exactly it is up to the roof via the elevator shaft to this nice Phelps Dodge UHF on the roof. It was pushing basically 5W out of the top and that worked! And Bill, the installer was a certain defunct cable TV company in Portland.

15 floors of RG213 type cable - could have been abandoned LMR400 / Belden 9913 installed by Teligent back in the 90's to feed their p2p rooftop microwave. They paid a number of contractors, including our company, to pre-wire the vertical portion of their phone and data services that were supposed to compete with the telco. Almost all commercial buildings in the downtown core had LMR and 100pr cables run from the basement to the rooftop through the telco rooms on each floor. If they signed a customer, their techs would install the microwave on the roof, the switching equipment in the basement, and punch down pairs on the 66 blocks installed on each floor. They shoved 70Mhz IF up the LMR to drive the microwave. So, length was not very critical. It was a heck of an investment. Teligent was one of the losers in the telecom meltdown leaving a lot of wiring place that was never used. Those who knew about it would often put it to use for their own purposes. Some building managers allowed that. Some didn't. Some eventually paid to have all that wiring removed. But, for the most part it's still installed, and still looking for something to do.