Coverting MT2000 800 MHz to VHF

ptemt · Post by **ptemt** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 7:02 pm

A friend has a full keypad, conventional 800 Mhz MT2000. If I were able to get ahold of a VHF RF board, would it be possible to convert the radio to VHF. If so, how would I go about doing this? Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 8:14 pm

Yes it is possible. I've got a UHF MT2000 that was an 800 conv. MT.
But a friend did the work for me.

thehead7 · Post by **thehead7** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 8:18 pm

This can be done...

I have an MTS2000 900 that I put a VHF RF deck in from an HT1000. If I can ever get ahold of the archive to dump into the radio, it'll work fine with an alignment. I've got a codeplug for an MT2000 or MTS2000 VHF, but it outdates my lab RSS, so that makes things difficult...

If anyone happens to have an archive and s-record for a 136-154 split VHF MTS2000, I'd appreciate it...

I Digress... Basically, what the procedure would require is this:

Make sure the controller is a pre-toolproof controler (older than 5.42 firmware) You can determine this by hitting the monitor key five times after turning the radio on. The revision of the firmware will flash, along with some other info...

If the controller is later than 5.42, you are on your own. I would not recommend trying to do anything to it. You could get a controller with older firmware, though.

Next, you should create a backup of the radio's archive and s-record in Lab RSS. This will allow you to restore the radio to it's origional state if you desire.

Make your hardware swap. You will have to take the radio completely apart, remove the 800 RF deck, and then add the VHF RF deck. Put it all back together, and load the radio up with the archive and s-record of a VHF radio. You can then run the radio through it's alignment, and you'll be good to go...

The last few steps, for my part, are theory. I'm still trying to get the proper s-record and archive, but once I get my hands on them, life will improve. It may be possible, also, to change an S record to modify the internal model number and bandsplit of the radio, but that's a whole other can of worms, and I'm probably talking out of my A@@ on that... (I'm sure someone else has better insight into that area...)

Good luck,
Head

mancow · Post by **mancow** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 9:30 pm

I've done it with a pre 5.42 controller full keypad 800. I took it to VHF and back to 800 again just to see how it was done. It worked fine. I couldn't tell the difference from any other Vhf radio.

The procedures are exactly like what was written above.

I may still have the S record around. I will look.

mancow

thehead7 · Post by **thehead7** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 10:20 pm

Well, I'm glad to know I at least have the right idea, haha... I think I gathered that from some posts here and there.

I would greatly appreciate a copy of the s-record. I'll even name my next cat after you. Please send it to kb5sxh at arrl dot net when you get the chance.

Thanks,
John

ptemt · Post by **ptemt** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 5:42 am

Thanks for the insight. I'm going to try and get my hands on a vhf rf deck and try it out. One more question. Once you dump the s-record from the vhf radio into the converted radio, will you then be able to program it with the normal rss, or will you have to use the lab software to make changes?

Post by **wavetar** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:14 am

thehead7 wrote:I've got a codeplug for an MT2000 or MTS2000 VHF, but it outdates my lab RSS, so that makes things difficult...

If anyone happens to have an archive and s-record for a 136-154 split VHF MTS2000, I'd appreciate it...

You do not need to be able to read the codeplug with LAB RSS version 3.00.02. Once you try & read the 'newer' codeplug & get the 'codeplug too new error', the RSS has actually loaded the packed codeplug into it's memory, it simply couldn't unpack the contents to display it. So, go to the "read/write with no pack/unpack" screen & write the packed codeplug into the radio. You then read the radio with your later version of regular RSS to make your programming changes. Works every time. This is all assuming you have an MTS2000 controller with firmware version less than 5.42, of course.

Todd

thehead7 · Post by **thehead7** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:52 am

Once you manage to force a codeplug into the radio, it will then "become" whatever model radio you force into it. You may then edit the radio in whatever RSS you desire, provided you aren't dealing with RSS too new/old for the codeplug version in the radio. Make quite sure that the radio you want to play with has an older controller. If not, you can create a doorstop. Make sure you have a good backup of the archive/s-record in lab, too...

Wavetar: No kidding? I'm going to give that a try and see what happens. Of course, it would be nice to be able to edit the radio in my version of lab, as the codeplug I have is for a type 1, and the radio is a type 2. It's be nice to get the type 2 functionality (especially to get the thing to know that it has more than a six charecter display....) I think this much can be done in lab, but I don't know about ading more than 48 modes... we shall see...

Thanks,
Head

thehead7 · Post by **thehead7** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 9:06 am

Okay, I've tried what you suggested, wavetar. It seems to not like that. It would seem to me that a packed codeplug would have to be unpacked to work with the radio, or vice versa. The radio gives a Fail 01/92 error code. I can dump my backup archive back into it, and it recovers fine though.

Just for grins I tried reading/writing it from normal RSS while it had it's 01/92 error code up, in case it was some small error with the plug, but that didn't work (it was a longshot anyway)...

Thanks
John

Post by **wavetar** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 9:38 am

What version of LAB are you using? If it's 2.00.01, it won't work. You'll get the error you're describing. But it will work with 3.00.02. Myself & several others have used the exact method I describe & it works. The same method using MTSX LAB 3.00.02 will also work for MCS2000 & Astro series radios, since it doesn't actually unpack the codeplug. Others can verify it.

Todd

Wes · Post by **Wes** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 11:48 am

Can the same procedure be done with a UHF vs. VHF HT1000??????

Wes

thehead7 · Post by **thehead7** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 12:56 pm

wavetar wrote:What version of LAB are you using? If it's 2.00.01, it won't work. You'll get the error you're describing. But it will work with 3.00.02. Myself & several others have used the exact method I describe & it works. The same method using MTSX LAB 3.00.02 will also work for MCS2000 & Astro series radios, since it doesn't actually unpack the codeplug. Others can verify it.

Todd

Alas, I am using 2.00.01... I've tried to find a newer version, to no avail... Thanks for the info, though. I now at least know what to do when I can get the proper RSS.

Wes: What makes these radios what they are (as far as HT1000, MT2000, MTS2000, et cetera) is the controller, and the faceplate. Namely, all of the RF decks are the same. I'm not quite sure what you are asking, but you can take the UHF rf deck from an HT1000 and use it to convert an 800/900/VHF MT2000 or MTS2000, or you can take the UHF RF deck from any of these radios and use it to convert an HT1000, or vice versa... I think it might even be possible to turn an HT1000 into a JT1000 with a faceplate and a codeplug. I'm not too sure about that, though. I think I may have heard that they both use the same controller... If anyone has any info on this, let us know...

-John

ptemt · Post by **ptemt** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 9:03 am

Thanks to everyone who posted info. I have to two more quick questions.
This whole idea started because a friend on mine purchased an MT2000 off of Ebay. He thought that the radio would do trunking, but it ended up being only able to due conventional. So I am trying to at least make the radio usable for him. So my questions are:

1. Would the same process mentioned above work to replace the controller in the radio. If I were to get ahold of a controller from an MTX8000 B5 or B7.

2. I know toolproofing is an issue on mts2000 contollers above rev. 5.42. Is this for all MTSX contollers, or just the mts2000 controller.

Thanks again. Everyone has been a big help.

FMROB · Post by **FMROB** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 9:39 am

Okay, here is two questions.

1) STUPID QUESTION, how do you ascertain the firmware version of the controller board.

2) If you use the S-record to read/write on the contorller (and keep an original image of the controller on the radio you a trying to upgrade) doesn't his "work around" the tool-proof error. I thouhgt is was just when you try to dump a regualr codeplug into the radio is when this error becomes a problem.

Post by **wavetar** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 12:51 pm

ptemt wrote:
1. Would the same process mentioned above work to replace the controller in the radio. If I were to get ahold of a controller from an MTX8000 B5 or B7.

Yes, you could replace the MT2000 controller with any MTX8000 B5 or B7 board & have trunking. Alternately, you can use the LAB procedure above & force a MTX8000 B5 or B7 codeplug into the MT2000 controller & accomplish the same thing.

ptemt wrote:

2. I know toolproofing is an issue on mts2000 contollers above rev. 5.42. Is this for all MTSX contollers, or just the mts2000 controller.

This is only an issue for MTS2000 controllers. No other radio model is affected by toolproofing.

Todd

Post by **wavetar** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 12:56 pm

FMROB wrote:Okay, here is two questions.

1) STUPID QUESTION, how do you ascertain the firmware version of the controller board.

2) If you use the S-record to read/write on the contorller (and keep an original image of the controller on the radio you a trying to upgrade) doesn't his "work around" the tool-proof error. I thouhgt is was just when you try to dump a regualr codeplug into the radio is when this error becomes a problem.

1) You can read the radio with RSS & go into "F9-radio programming history". It will give you the radio firmware version there. Alternately, you can put the unit into test mode by pressing the side button directly above the PTT 5 times in a row, within 10 seconds of the end of the "self test" message after power up. The firmware version will scroll by on the display.

2) Using an S-record from ANY other radio will also cause toolproofing. It's NOT just a problem with using 'regular' codeplugs.

Todd

thehead7 · Post by **thehead7** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 2:10 pm

If you read the MTSX section of batlabs, it will give you almost as much information you could possibly want about toolproofing. There's also some interesting posts here, too... I have toolproofed a radio, myself, but was able to restore it (I just kind of wanted to see if it would work... I had an extra controller, anyway...)

I could be mistaken, but the S-record file is actually the internal codeplug (someone either back me up or shoot me down, please). I am not exactly sure what the difference between the internal and external codeplugs are, but I believe the internal codeplug to hold information about features, options, and a few settings, and the external one to mainly involve the modes/configuration...

I could be wrong on this, so perhaps someone will educate me, but this is kind of how it seems to me...

-Head

ptemt · Post by **ptemt** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 3:02 pm

Alternately, you can use the LAB procedure above & force a MTX8000 B5 or B7 codeplug into the MT2000 controller & accomplish the same thing

Wavetar,

So are you saying that the MT2000 controller is capable of trunking, even though the radio is conventional? I was under the impression that the MT2000 controllers where not capable of trunking.

thehead7 · Post by **thehead7** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 4:43 pm

To my knowlege, the only difference between an MT2000 and an MTS2000 is secure capability. On the MTS2000 controller there is a place to plug in a secure module. On an MT2000 controller, there is not. The only other difference is in the codeplug...

-Head

ptemt · Post by **ptemt** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 10:02 am

So if I understand this correctly, your saying that I can dump an mtx8000 b5/b7 codeplug into the conventional mt2000 using lab, and the radio will then be capable of trunking? Or do I also need the S-record of an mtx8000? Sorry to keep dragging out this topic, but dumping the new codeplug in is alot easier than taking apart the radio and replace the rf board.

Post by **wavetar** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 12:26 pm

ptemt wrote:So if I understand this correctly, your saying that I can dump an mtx8000 b5/b7 codeplug into the conventional mt2000 using lab, and the radio will then be capable of trunking? Or do I also need the S-record of an mtx8000? Sorry to keep dragging out this topic, but dumping the new codeplug in is alot easier than taking apart the radio and replace the rf board.

Well, the MT2000 is not a popular radio around here. I've never tried it with one of them, but others have reported they change into a MTX8000 trunking capable radio no problem. Just keep a packed codeplug of it to change back if it doesn't work, but I believe it will, following the LAB 3.00.02 procedure detailed above. Any codeplug will do, no S-record or LAB readable codeplug needed.

Todd

Wes · Post by **Wes** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 5:58 pm

John,

Thanks for the reply. You somwhat answered my question.

I should have clarified a little more.....

I have a VHF HT1000 with controller problems. RF Deck is working good. I have a UHF radio for parts. I believe it has a good controller in it, (I am really only assuming this). What is involved in putting the UHF controller in the VHF radio and making it work as a VHF radio. I do have the LAB software.

Wes

ptemt · Post by **ptemt** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:15 am

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone that gave info. I was able to successfully transform the mt2000 into a trunking radio. Thanks for everyones help.

thehead7 · Post by **thehead7** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:01 pm

Wes,

Sorry to take so long to reply... I kind of lost track of stuff for a few days...

Okay, so here's the deal...

All of the radios that look the same really are kinda the same. Here are some commonalities in the Jedi series...

RF Decks are the same accross the line.

Controllers different. All HT1000 controllers are the same. All JT1000 controllers are the same (They might be HT1000 controllers, but not sure). ALL MTSX controllers are the same except for MTS2000s, which have a secure module connector on them. Physically, the controllers connect the same, et cetera.

You can mix and match these parts as you desire...

What you are trying to do, in theory, shouldn't be difficult. Change the controller, and dump in a codeplug for a VHF. Align the radio, then rock on. If possible, try to get the softpot values from the old controller, unless it is totally hosed. You can then plug these values into the new codeplug and shouldn't need to realign.

I haven't tried forcing codeplugs with HT1000s (I don't mess with them too much). If you need a codeplug, let me know, I think I have one. Also, if your other HT1000 controller is hosed, let me know, I've got a controller out of a VHF that should be good to go.

73
John

Post by **wavetar** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:53 am

Be aware there is also the FIRMWARE difference on the MTS2000 controller boards. This can cause several issues;

Number one, toolproofing. If the firmware is 5.42 or higher, you cannot modify the board with LAB, period.

Number two, features which may work on an MTS2000 may not work if you dump an MTS2000 codeplug into a MT2000/MTX8000 controller due to the fact the great majority of the MT/MTX radios' firmware cannot do what the MTS2000 does (MDC ID's, etc).

You also cannot change a HT1000 into a JT1000 or vice versa. In short, it's not always a simple mix & match, dump & go scenario.

But you can still do a lot...

Todd

thehead7 · Post by **thehead7** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:27 am

Todd,

Thanks for elaborating. I kind of thought that the MT and MTS firmware was the same, though, with the exception of secure capabilities. I thought I'd seen MT2000s that do MDC ID, et cetera, but I also could have been smoking crack. Is that all covered in the MTSX theory manual?

Thanks,
John

Post by **wavetar** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 9:41 am

The firmware is not the same, all MT/MTX versions are 2.xx or 1.xx, the MTS2000 is generally 4.xx or above, with the great majority 6.xx. There are later MT/MTX radios which can do things like MDC...try to find a board with a 2.xx firmware version for best results. This sort of stuff isn't in the manuals, I learned the great majority of it reading the posts here & playing on my own.

Todd

thehead7 · Post by **thehead7** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:24 pm

cool...

I always appreciate the benefit of others' experience.

Thanks,
John

RESCUE161 · Post by **RESCUE161** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 7:01 am

thehead7 wrote:If possible, try to get the softpot values from the old controller, unless it is totally hosed. You can then plug these values into the new codeplug and shouldn't need to realign.

STUPID QUESTION, but I had to ask...

Can the softpot values from an HT1000 controller be used in an MTS2000 controller?

I want to turn an 800MHz MTS2000 into a VHF model. I have a VHF HT1000 laying around. All I need is an unpacked S record of a VHF MTS2000. Does anyone have one of these?

Thanks!

jhook · Post by **jhook** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:46 pm

who ever is playing with switching a uhf ht1000 to vhf keep me posted as to how it went i might be wanting to do this thank's

JHOOk

ALF 935 · Post by **ALF 935** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 2:02 pm

Ok, I have an MTX9000 with a corrupted mother board. I have an HT1000 800 mhz Conv. Mother board . Will the 800 conv. go into the MTX9000 (900 mhz)?
Jimmy

OX · Post by OX » Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:04 pm

Don't think so. The HT1000 and the MTX/MTS are different controllers even though they are the same product line, hence the different RSS to program them.

Best case would result in the HT controller doing 900 conventional but I really doubt that it would work.

carbineone · Post by **carbineone** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:52 am

I have tried making a uhf mt2000 into a mts2000 with trunking this
does NOT work. The target radio will take the codeplug but when on
a trunk system it will give a steady tone. It seems that the controller does
not understand the trunking. I tried to different radios with no luck the
conventional channels do work though. Does anybody know a workaround on this.

OX · Post by OX » Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:44 am

That was my results as well. I attributed it to a MT2000 controller was no meant to do trunking and wasn't programmed to do trunking.

I think that you're stuck with finding a trunking controller for your target radio.

BTW, you cannot take a MTX or MT controller and make it to be a MTS. A MTS is securenet ready plus several other features that have already been discussed on this forum multiple times. You can write a MTS codeplug into it, but it does not make it a MTS by any means. Yes, you can enable some Smartnet functions by doing this. It's kinda like a sex change. A man changing into a woman will always be a man. He will never have womanly organs and the opposite applies.

Motoman · Post by **Motoman** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:12 am

Can u do this whole RF board swaps for a Saber so can u make a UHF saber a VHF my switching it's modules?

Coverting MT2000 800 MHz to VHF

Coverting MT2000 800 MHz to VHF

swapping uhf to vhf

Ccnverting mt2000