Spectra Programming

kcbooboo · Post by **kcbooboo** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:53 am

NOTE TO MODERATORS: I'M NOT REQUESTING ANY SOFTWARE.

I have a 900 MHz Spectra II, E-series. I read 16 codeplug blocks just fine with RSS R06.00.05 and saved the original file. Two questions:

1. I want to delete most/all of the 128 trunking modes, but the program only lets me add/delete conventional modes; I never get a chance to tell it to choose trunking modes. Do I need something like a SYSKEY (that would be required on a GTX) to allow access to the trunking modes? Would some other (non-public) program do the job?

2. I made some other minor radio-wide changes (minimum volume level, home channel) and when I tried to write the codeplug back, I got a warning message about incompatibility/feature loss. I decided NOT to continue until I verified that this is a fairly benign warning. I don't know if it's because I'm using a different version of RSS than the previous owner used, or if I will really turn my radio into a brick by continuing.

Eventually I'll change the band limits for 900 MHz and reprogram the radio with amateur repeater freqs, but for now, I'll be happy just to get rid of most/all of the trunking modes and free up some space. I don't need the trunking channels at all, but I know that having just one is a necessary evil for some radios.

Bob M.

RKG · Post by **RKG** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:29 am

1. The "Mode Utility" that is on F8 from the Change menu only applies to conventional "modes." For trunking, you first have to go to Trunking (F4, from memory), then you'll find another mode utility.

2. The simple way to "clean out" a trunked Spectra is to delete all scan lists but one and reduce that to a single channel. Then start deleting trunked personalities (but the last), which will also delete modes that call this personality. You make need a system key.

3. The "changed features" suggests that this radio's current codeplug was forced into it by someone before you, with features that the firmware did not recognize. These messages are usually, but not always, benign.

kcbooboo · Post by **kcbooboo** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:33 am

Thanks. I never even entered the trunking screens/menu. That'll probably let me delete the trunking modes. It was strange that I could add modes, but the screen skipped over the "conventional" field, so I thought that was the place to specify the types I wanted to operate on.

That's what I figured the warning message was about. I think I'm using the latest version; I just want to prevent having to mix my radio with Portland Cement.

Bob M.

kcbooboo · Post by **kcbooboo** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 10:12 am

Just as an update, when I try to do anything with the trunking data, I'm told to use TCMS, whatever that stands for.

Remember this is a Spectra II with SmartZone trunking. Maybe that's more advanced than ordinary trunking, and perhaps it requires special care when dealing with it.

A few more questions:
1. Is there a trunking version of the software, like there is on MaxTracs, that will let me delete these channels?

2. I can put in a system key. Would that get me past this restriction?

3. Is R06.00.05 the latest version? If not, that might explain why I'm getting the warning message when I'm about to write the codeplug back.

Bob M.

Post by **batdude** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:17 pm

there is not a special version for the spectra - all program with the same version s/w

yes, a trunking system key will help immensely manipulating the trunking data.

you are using the last official release version of the s/w... i don't know about the warnings... but i would go ahead and write the codeplug.... especially if you have saved a good copy of it.

doug

kcbooboo · Post by **kcbooboo** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:26 pm

Sure, go ahead and write it - what have you got to lose ?!?!?! Hi Hi.

Yes, I have it saved down to the backup folder as well.

Thanks for the confirmation on the version and its functionality.

I did install a syskey file and discovered a whole new world of options opened up to me. I still would have to delete one mode at a time, and there are 128 of them programmed in, but I think I'll be good if I leave just one somewhere.

Quite a learning curve here, compared to a MaxTrac or even an MSF5000.

Happy New Year.

Bob M.

Post by **wavetar** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:58 pm

Spectra programming is a PITA to learn...it's completely different from every other M radio out there. I only program one or two a year it seems...I have to 'relearn' everything every damn time!

Todd

Will · Post by **Will** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:04 pm

I guess I am lucky, I started working on Spectras when they first hit the streets in the late late 80's. So I learned Spectra RSS from the begining, should I say, from "the streets up". I am still learning some new ones, that's good!

motorola_otaku · Post by **motorola_otaku** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:26 pm

I have some experience with the E-series radios (posted pics earlier, lemme know if you need them), so maybe I can help.

Yes, 6.00.05 will read/write to these radios. From what I can tell, most of the trunking setup is identical to Smartnet/PP Spectras, except you have the added Smartzone options. To get rid of your trunking modes, here's what you need to do:

1.) From the main menu, go F4 - F4 - F8 - F3. Write down the number of all the trunking personalities, then hit F10 to exit into the previous menu.

2.) Hit F8, then select "Delete Pers". Starting from the highest working your way down, delete all of the personalities. It'll throw up warnings at you for deleting systems completely; go ahead and hit F2 - OK. Once you are down to the #1 personality, it won't let you go any further.

3.) Select "Delete Mode". Same as above, start with the highest working your way down and delete all of them. And same as above, it'll stop you at Mode #1.

4.) From there, hit F10 - F10 - F5. This should put you in the Trunking Systems screen. Enter the SysID for your dummy key, then disable Smartzone and automatic affiliation, and blank out all the control channels.

5.) From there, hit F10 - F10 - F2, for the Radio-Wide Options. On the left-hand side of the screen, slide the Max Systems and Max Subfleets down to 1, and crank your Max Conventional Modes up to 128. You can also set up your zones and change the scan options (shorten the hang time, for example) at this point.

6.) From there, hit F10 - F5. This should put you into the Mode Options screen. Since you can't delete that last pesky trunking talkgroup, change its ID to 001 or something similar and enter "BLANK" for the mode name. From there, you can set up your conventional personalities the same as a conventional Spectra. From here on, it's pretty much business as usual; save and program. One warning: if you read the radio again, the RSS may revert to the default 15 sys/16 sub/10 conv setup and you'll need to go back into F2 - Radio-Wide and reset everything.

That should be enough to get you going. Any more questions, feel free to ask.

kcbooboo · Post by **kcbooboo** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:34 am

Thanks. I'll go through that procedure and see how it works, probably in a couple of days. Other projects are on the burner right now.

I'm happy that I can expand the number of conventional channels. Is there a way to make it stay that way (128 conventional), by hex-editing something, internally or externally?

Bob M.

RKG · Post by **RKG** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:13 am

There seem to be two flavors of Spectra program memory. One, which I have seen only rarely, has moveable partitions that can be changed (within limits) from the RadioWide screen of the RSS. The rest are fixed (i.e., X number of trunked personalities (maxing at 15 TGs per personality) and Y number of conventional "modes"). I wouldn't try tinkering with fixed memory partitions, as you risk ending up with vectors pointing in space, which will put the radio into an unrecoverable loop.

kcbooboo · Post by **kcbooboo** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:09 am

I played with the disk codeplug and found that if I lowered the number of personalities, I could raise the number of conventional channels. I just hope that it stays that way when I permanently delete most of the trunking information.

Bob M.

motorola_otaku · Post by **motorola_otaku** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:52 pm

RKG wrote:There seem to be two flavors of Spectra program memory. One, which I have seen only rarely, has moveable partitions that can be changed (within limits) from the RadioWide screen of the RSS. The rest are fixed (i.e., X number of trunked personalities (maxing at 15 TGs per personality) and Y number of conventional "modes"). I wouldn't try tinkering with fixed memory partitions, as you risk ending up with vectors pointing in space, which will put the radio into an unrecoverable loop.

I was always under the impression that that went along with MLM version; i.e. a 5.22 radio wouldn't let you do that whereas a 6.16 radio would. In the radios I've encountered that wouldn't let you change things, the cursor flat out wouldn't move to that side of the screen. The only issue I've seen happens when one tries to force codeplugs that don't belong; i.e a C7 into a B5 and then tries to change stuff, which results in Systems, Subfleets, and Conventional Personalities going to all zeros.

Also fyi, the E-series firmware is 7.xx and the MLM is integrated into the controller board, so you're probably not going to have any luck labbing a B- or C-series radio into an E radio.

kcbooboo · Post by **kcbooboo** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:50 pm

The firmware revision sticker on my E-series board says V8.12. I don't know how that relates to MLM 6.15; they might have started at a different number. It already has a 12-button keypad control head; no reason to change it.

I wasn't planning on jamming anything into this except some amateur frequencies. These are too easy to "brick", and nearly unrecoverable, certainly a lot more difficult than a MaxTrac.

Bob M.

BikerScout · Post by **BikerScout** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:04 pm

I have a conventional Spectra that shows that same error message about codeplug/feature loss. My tech asked me if I still wanted to write to the radio. I figured he could recover it if it went bad. Mine is a D43KMA7JA5BK with a MLM 2.15 which is the lowest MLM i have seen of the 4 spectras I have. The rest are all MLM 5.12+ with one being 6.15. Radio seems to work fine dispite this funky message.
This was after the code plug was read from the radio and changes made to modes and disabling some features. then read back into the same radio. It was not cloned from another radio.

Bryan
------------------------------------------------
Target Radio has different features than current archive Continuing this process may result in incorrect operation.
------------------------------------------------

motorola_otaku · Post by **motorola_otaku** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:24 pm

BikerScout wrote:------------------------------------------------
Target Radio has different features than current archive Continuing this process may result in incorrect operation.
------------------------------------------------

Someone got to it before you did, then, 'cause that's the error message you get when the codeplug in the radio is slightly off from the one that's supposed to be there. If it really aggravates you you could try a MLM swap with another radio, but no need to fix it if it ain't broke.

BikerScout · Post by **BikerScout** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:00 pm

That is what I figured.

Now it's going to bother me until I can get it fixed somewhere.

Bryan

kcbooboo · Post by **kcbooboo** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:33 am

That sure sounds like the message I got. I also read the codeplug, made some changes, and got that when I was about to write it back.

Could this come up if the previous owner had used an older version of programming software than I am, so he's really the one who messed it up, and if I write it back will I straighten it out, or is it going to be this way from now on?

I suppose I could go into almost every screen and select factory defaults, but that won't reset everything.

Bob M.

BikerScout · Post by **BikerScout** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:13 am

From what I seen, it looks like it's going to be that way from now on.

Bryan

motorola_otaku · Post by **motorola_otaku** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:04 am

kcbooboo wrote:Could this come up if the previous owner had used an older version of programming software than I am, so he's really the one who messed it up, and if I write it back will I straighten it out, or is it going to be this way from now on?

I don't think older RSS will even recognize an E-series radio, so that's probably not it. Weird that yours would do that.. when I got mine, it read & wrote with no issues. As long as you saved the original codeplug, just fire away and if you brick it, you can always dump the old one back in.

kcbooboo · Post by **kcbooboo** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:34 pm

Are you guaranteeing that there's nothing that can go wrong (well, except for power failures and hardware mishaps) that would turn the radio into a brick which I can NOT load the original codeplug back into?

A friend went through a similar process deleting some conventional channels and ended up bricking his radio big-time. It required another MLM to get it usable again. The radio would power-cycle with the dreaded FL 01/90 error and nothing we (or anyone else) tried would let us access the radio. Kept getting Bus Busy errors.

I just don't want to do that to my radio - yet. I do feel good about making some minor changes and writing it back. Eventually I have to delete all but one trunking mode/personality and put in some conventional amateur freqs.

Bob M.

BikerScout · Post by **BikerScout** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:19 pm

kcbooboo wrote:Are you guaranteeing that there's nothing that can go wrong (well, except for power failures and hardware mishaps) that would turn the radio into a brick which I can NOT load the original codeplug back into?>>SNIP<

Bob M.

Me? Nope, I can't Guarantee that it would not brick your radio. I only did it becuase there was a radio shop doing the programming for me and I figured if they did brick it. They could fix it. Maybe that was the wrong assumption on my part. However, it worked for my radio.

Bryan

kcbooboo · Post by **kcbooboo** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:03 am

Well, maybe a radio shop could fix it, but I'm not willing to take that chance myself, plus I don't want to spend three times the price I paid for the radio to send it to a depot for repair. So I'm definitely erring on the side of caution here. I've seen programming go bad, and with no way to blank and reinitialize these radios (like MaxTracs), I'll take my time.

However, it's inevitable that I will need to write the codeplug to the radio sooner rather than later. Maybe I'll be lucky and each attempt will be successful.

I do thank everyone who has posted information to this thread.

Bob M.

motorola_otaku · Post by **motorola_otaku** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:17 pm

kcbooboo wrote:Are you guaranteeing that there's nothing that can go wrong (well, except for power failures and hardware mishaps) that would turn the radio into a brick which I can NOT load the original codeplug back into?

I'll put it to you this way: I've read from and written to mine on at least 20 or 30 seperate occasions over the course of two years and haven't bricked it yet. Then again, I've never seen an error message, either. The only reason I can figure for you seeing that particular error message in that particular radio is someone read it with Lab, changed something, and dumped it back in.

Just so we're on the same page, the model # and serial # in the codeplug match what's on the tag, and the controller board looks like this, right?

kcbooboo · Post by **kcbooboo** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:47 pm

Yup, mine is similar, but a 900 MHz version, so it has the HearClear chip in the front left corner where yours just has about 24 solder pads. Also, mine is V8.20 and all the serial numbers DO match.

Lab could certainly have been used on it by the previous owner. I'm wondering if I read the codeplug and write it back, if that will get rid of the error for the next time I try this. One thing's for certain: I will note the message that appears, if any.

Thanks.
Bob M.

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:56 pm

Is it complaining about trunking features? You'll get various messages if you set certain options or delete them without making other corresponding changes like the one you're experiencing.

its not critial and won't kill you radio. As for the people you know who has bricked their radios its probably a combination of using the wrong software, forcing codeplugs and or crummy RIB/cables and hardware.

kcbooboo · Post by **kcbooboo** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:35 pm

As I recall, I read the codeplug, changed the "home" mode from a trunking one (116) to a conventional one (133) and lowered the minimum volume control setting. When I went to write the codeplug back, I got the warning message about incompatibilities/features and aborted it rather than risk destruction. That event prompted this entire thread. Those changes seemed to be benign enough to me.

I can't vouch for the software, cables, or RIB on the radio that got bricked but it ended up in a FL 01/90 loop and a Bus Busy condition that could not be broken into. At least we were able to recover it by replacing the MLM; my E-series Spectra II does not have an MLM so I'm being overly cautious with it.

Bob M.

kcbooboo · Post by **kcbooboo** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:18 pm

Thought I'd update the community on this oddity.

I fired up the radio and software. Read the codeplug (F3, F2), then tried immediately writing it out (F8, F8). I got a warning message:

"Target radio has different features than current archive. Continuing this process may result in incorrect operation."

I can't understand how the codeplug I just read from the radio could have different features than itself. I never read an archive file, just the radio. That's like saying "1 does not equal 1". I decided not to continue at this time.

I made one change to the data (minimum volume is now 1) and decided to write the codeplug. Pressed F8, F8, got the warning message, and pressed F2 to continue. The codeplug got written properly, the radio reset itself, the minimum volume DID get accepted, and life seems to be perfectly normal.

I tried this same procedure again: read the codeplug, then immediately write it back. This time, I did NOT get any warning message. I don't know if the "problem" fixed itself, or if you only get one warning per session of running the program.

Anyway, I feel a lot better now knowing that I can write to the radio and haven't turned it into a brick yet. Hex-editing, here I come!

Bob M.

CTAMontrose · Post by **CTAMontrose** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:04 am

Alot of times errors with spectra codeplugs can be fixed merely by reading then writing the codeplug back in. Perhaps that is what has occured.

motorola_otaku · Post by **motorola_otaku** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:20 am

kcbooboo wrote:Thought I'd update the community on this oddity.

I fired up the radio and software. Read the codeplug (F3, F2), then tried immediately writing it out (F8, F8). I got a warning message:

"Target radio has different features than current archive. Continuing this process may result in incorrect operation."

I can't understand how the codeplug I just read from the radio could have different features than itself. I never read an archive file, just the radio. That's like saying "1 does not equal 1". I decided not to continue at this time.

I made one change to the data (minimum volume is now 1) and decided to write the codeplug. Pressed F8, F8, got the warning message, and pressed F2 to continue. The codeplug got written properly, the radio reset itself, the minimum volume DID get accepted, and life seems to be perfectly normal.

I tried this same procedure again: read the codeplug, then immediately write it back. This time, I did NOT get any warning message. I don't know if the "problem" fixed itself, or if you only get one warning per session of running the program.

Anyway, I feel a lot better now knowing that I can write to the radio and haven't turned it into a brick yet. Hex-editing, here I come!

Bob M.

AFAIK, no one's ever published the results of bitbanging an E-series Spectra. Good luck!

edit: BTW, "normal" Spectra Lab will NOT work with those radios. You need the B99.99.99 "TEMPRSS!!" hacked version.

kcbooboo · Post by **kcbooboo** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:40 am

When I said "hex-editing" I was referring to the programming, not anything in the radio itself. I'm too new at this to even attempt it.

I've been told that after I enter ham frequencies and write the codeplug to the radio, I need to go back in with a virgin program and fix or enter the PL/DPL fields. I don't know why I should need to do this considering the only things changed in the program were frequency limits.

If I read the codeplug from the radio, add ham frequencies, then save the cp to disk, can I read the disk cp with the virgin program and fix the PL/DPL fields, then write the cp to the radio, or must I write it to the radio at each step and read it fresh? In other words, does the radio change the data written to it by the modified program?

Method 1: read radio, add a conventional channel with modified program, save cp to disk. Read saved cp from disk with virgin program, fix the PL/DPL data, write cp to radio.

Method 2: read radio, add a conventional channel with modified program, write cp to radio. Read radio with virgin program, fix the PL/DPL data, write cp to radio.

Bob M.

kcbooboo · Post by **kcbooboo** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:14 am

Well, this should be the final update (like the final frontier).

This morning I read the radio with hex-edited software, modified two existing conventional channels for the local repeaters (including TPL/DPL values), changed a couple of other minor items, and wrote the codeplug back to the radio. It worked perfectly. Absolutely nothing unexpected or out of the ordinary. In my case, I did NOT have to go back into the codeplug with virgin software to fix the TPL/DPL fields. They all worked first time. Talk-around worked. I could key up one of the repeaters (still using a dummy load, but it's only 3000 ft away). Receiver sensitivity is amazing: the radio is breaking squelch at around -133dBm, and with TPL at -127dBm. I'm getting 20dB quieting at 0.3uV (about -118dBm).

I've done some minor alignment adjustments and so far the radio has operated perfectly. My heart is beating normally again.

Thanks to the many people who gave me information and encouragement in this endeavor. Still not as idiot-proof as a MaxTrac, but I'm learning.

Bob M.

kcbooboo · Post by **kcbooboo** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:41 pm

To motorola_otaku:

I followed your procedure above for deleting the trunking info. It worked perfectly. One mode, one personality remain, and I was able to bump the number of modes to 1/1/128 with no problem. Thank you for the info.

I also enabled scanning for two repeater channels. I'm about to try fooling with MPL.

The radio is still working, too.

Bob M.

skipfd8 · Post by **skipfd8** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:13 am

I have been reading alot of your posts and you seem to be a very knowledgable person on radios. I have been programming Spectras for about 10 years and have worked at a Motorola radio shop locally. But i just recently bought a Spectra E9 with systems 900 control head. I have programmed it but i wanted to use a smaller control head like E7 or 5 but it wont let me change the control head type in the RSS. I have even tried to use the lab rss or the latest version i have anyway but it says the radio is not supported by the version software. All i want to do is change the head type and was hoping you could tell me if it is possible? Thanks so much for your time and contributions on here.

kcbooboo · Post by **kcbooboo** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:23 am

I really don't know. The memory locations for non-E-series Spectras are well-documented, but I haven't ever looked at them on my radio. I'm a scaredy-cat when it comes to experimenting with it, having seen how easy it was to turn a radio into a brick by deleting all the modes.

You'd need a program that can access the radio's memory directly. All I can suggest is to locate the documented byte locations and see if they follow the same order, even though they might be at a different location. Then find the "shadow" value in the other memory area. Change them and cross your fingers.

I won't be held responsible for the outcome, good or bad. You might try posting this as a fresh topic, because a lot of people seem to want to swap control heads and I'm sure someone else must have done it successfully.

Bob M.