Suitcase unit questions?

[firemedic]

I need a little help identifying some equipment I've got. Can anyone help identify the suitcase unit in the pics linked below. It appears to use a syntor X power amp and a MX something for the rec and tx radios. Other than that not real sure. I just need to figure out a part number or some way of getting a manual for the unit so I know what if anything I can do with it. The other item is a device to convert a saber into a lunchbox type radio. Appears to be for a system saber in the VHF range. Only markings on it are P1816A trying to find the pinouts for the mic and or a service manual to figure out what is what. Thanks for any info.
Warning the pics are large and have not been optimized to allow the best vieiwing if you wanted to zoom on an area.
Links:

http://webpages.charter.net/dobbins125/suitcase1.jpg
http://webpages.charter.net/dobbins125/suitcase2.JPG
http://webpages.charter.net/dobbins125/suitcase3.JPG
http://webpages.charter.net/dobbins125/saberlunch1.JPG

Thanks!!!!

[mostar]

The MX-based suitcase repeaters that I am familiar with were:

P4aSbS1180B

a - 3 = VHF, 4 = UHF
b - Y = clear, X = securenet

Only the first pic loaded - the other 404'ed...

I've never seen one with the handset mic before, but I'm not surprised that there is a variant like that. Its been many years since these were NLA from Motorola, so a manual might be tough to come by.

[toyradios]

Never seen the Saber lunchbox adapter, can you post some more pictures.

Thanks
Bill

[Big Blue TO/\/\]

are yours the ones now (or almost over) on ebay? I have had a few "regular" suitcase repeaters, but none like the one you have pictures of. Yours looks cooler, if nothing else. I have info, but it would be of no use to you because ours are so different. Where'd they come from?
What's with the Wireline and Modem connections?

[PETNRDX]

It looks to me like the ones the Secret Service used to bring in for temporary coverage when a "protectee" comes to town.
Secure modules, repeat, or simplex, or a voted receiver & can be wire controlled (leased phone lines).
Last I heard (several years ago) the Navy provided the techs that installed and moved them "leapfrog" style as protectees moved.

[firemedic]

Units are from the White House Communications Agency which is a unit of the navy. So yeah, ex secret service units. Same as the saber lunchbox adapters which we got a few of thinking they were the saber radios. So far their not too willing to help with any info. Either that or I'm not talking to the right person. These units will used by us for tactical ops and counter drug efforts. Just trying to figure out how to get em programmed up and if I can get one or two to work as portable repeaters. There not like anything I've dealt with before.

[Dan562]

This is a non standard Portable Suitcase Repeater probably built by the SP Engineers in the Ft. Lauderdale Product Group for the U.S.S.S. Unfortunately it will be almost impossible to find the manual on this unit unless you have access to some of the U.S. Government Agency's personnel in their Radio Maintenance Division.

The more standard MX300 VHF units are:
P43SYS1180BT, P43SYS3180BT or P43SYS6180BT Clear Analog
P43SXS1180BT, P43SXS3180BT or P43SXS6180BT Clear Analog & DVP

Dan

[xmo]

Ft. Lauderdale - Special Applications Group - Bill Pagones et.al. -

Those guys could build anything you could think up - channel steering Pac-RT's, PulsarII style DTMF heads for Maxtrac [P1364], MDC based center pivot status & control[Agrinet] - you name it - they made it.

[Dan562]

Yeah, the Florida guys came up with varoius different products from handheld portables, mobiles and even the Quantars PDR3400s. They even did a System Saber with a Mobile Microphone that you could use with the convertacom unit so the person using the unit didn't have to pull the Saber out to change modes. Too Bad the didn't do the same for the Astro Saber.

Now it seems that /\/\ only wants to do SPs on quantities of 100 units or more because it isn't cost effective on small quantities. Some of /\/\ management are missing the boat on that theory. /\/\ had always done SP modifications that work for their customers and the customer kept coming back for more.

The theory is now... /\/\ will build a Standard Product and the customers will come and buy it. We'll see how this one will plays out with their customer base. /\/\ makes a heck of a good dependable product but the current /\/\ management fail to see what they're doing to their regular LMR Communication customers.

Dan

[Will]

I understand the Florida operation has been shut down and only a couple people moved back to Shaumburg under mother /\/\'s wing.

[Dan562]

I find that comment funny! Mother /\/\ shipped the entire ... well this is going date me ... Portable Product Line down to Florida in 1969 because the management thought they were going to cash in on all of those NASA engineers being furloughed from the U.S. Space Program and all of the cheap Cuban labor down there.

Whoops, was that an oversight on /\/\ managements part ... all of those former NASA engineers were of the "Think Tank" type who would dream up the ideas and then put them out for U.S. Government Bids to the Northrup, Boeing, Collins Radio just to name a few. When they were required to evaluate production problems on the HT220s, those engineers would come down to the production floor and make comments like, "yeah, I suppose the radio could work that way." What a big help.

And on the cheap labor ... well you get what you pay for and there was one other distinct problem ... the cheap labor couldn't speak English and personnel training them couldn't speak Spanish. Oh, Mother /\/\ had more problems than they could handle for several years.

What I have discovered throughout the years /\/\ never has time to do it right the first time but plenty of time to redo the work over & over again, so much for Six Sigma .... or the more recent Digital Six Sigma but I'm not sure if the Digital is a One or a Zero.

The only product that exist in Florida is "iDEN" Subscriber otherwise known as the Nextel Subscriber Handhelds. I'm surprised /\/\ hasn't outsource those units over to China doing more Reduction In the U.S. Work Force till there's only /\/\ management sitting in the Corporate Tower Building .... no U.S. employees designing or manufacturing any products.

There's always the chance that the /\/\ management could sell off the corporation to some Far East Financial Investment Group and change the name to /\/\oto, Inc ... it has that oriental Quality sound to the name.

Dan

[KG6EAQ]

change the name to /\/\oto, Inc ... it has that oriental Quality sound to the name.

I like Motodooo better I think the only thing that has stopped them from doing that is, that even though most of the work is done overseas they are still an American company, verus some of the other big players.

[Dan562]

Here's the ironic part ... /\/\ moved all the LMR portable products down to Florida 35 years ago. Two years ago they were going to move the portables off shore till Uncle Sam had a fireside chat with /\/\ management telling them if they did that good old Uncle Sam would buy from M/A-com (alias GE LMR) products.

/\/\ management nearly had whiplash when they heard that and they promptly rethought their process and moved the Subscriber LMR to Schaumburg. I wonder how much money they saved by moving the products to Schaumburg? Other than the Government contracts.

There's so much baloney going on in Corporate America, it would make you head swim. Northrup-Gruman has our U.S. Military Fighter Jets built in JAPAN .... I wonder who actually won WW II? Big Blue IBM sent all of their engineers over to India on January 1, 2004, to train their counterparts and when they were finished, the U.S. IBM engineers flew home without a job. /\/\ has plants in India, China, Taiwan, Poland, UK, Germany, Ireland & a few left here in the U.S.A. The overseas engineering & manufacturing is doing the work for a fraction of the cost but they aren't passing the saving onto the American buyers or public .... Public Safety, Government or anyone else. The big boys in Corporate pocket the money as bonuses and the American workers get pushed out the door.

Did you know that Maytag Corporation bought out all of there competition? Lock, stock and barrel ... they own Tappan, Amana, Whirpool, etc .... you name the American manufactured appliances except GE and Maytag owns them. Tell me what drives competition now? And where are they built? Mexico for $28.00 a day, free lunches and uniforms for those Mexican workers. The Quality has gone into the toilet and you can't get a straight answer from Maytags Corporate management.

So you want to call it "/\/\otodoo \/\/hat?

Dan

[JOHN 1807]

Ok guys,

Since I'm messing around with my APCOR I was wondering

What is different (aside from securenet,and landline-linking function) between a "Suitcase" repeater and my apcor (I realize the apcor was made for Paramedics)

What I mean is that they both utilize the MX radios, correct?

I assume the "Suitcase repeater" has a duplexer like the apcor.

SO this brings me to my real question (First, be aware I know NOTHING about the Suitcase repeater):

Assuming the suitcase repeater is UHF - how is it that it does NOT have to receive on low and transmit on high (speaking about the split) unlike my APCOR.

I'm asking because both radios seem to be based on the MX series and are full duplex (I think) and I trying to figure out a way to use my apcor as a repeater (wanted to use it for GMRS but looks tough to overcome the Rx-low / Tx-high obstacle)

Thanks

-john

[Dan562]

Hello John,

Well there some difference as far as hardware configurations:

The more standard MX300 VHF units are:
P43SYS1180BT, P43SYS3180BT or P43SYS6180BT Clear Analog
P43SXS1180BT, P43SXS3180BT or P43SXS6180BT Clear Analog & DVP

The more standard MX300 UHF units are:
P44SYS1180BT, P44SYS3180BT or P44SYS6180BT Clear Analog
P44SXS1180BT, P44SXS3180BT or P44SXS6180BT Clear Analog & DVP

The model numbers I have listed above probably have the Duplexers built into them. The VHF version used an /\/\ IMTS (SP'd) or a Phelps - Dodge (Cellwave) Mobile Duplexer. The "SYS" was an Analog only version where as the "SXS" version was capable of both Coded (Securenet) and Clear (Analog) modes. Depending on the customers Factory Order these units could be ordered as Carrier Squelch, Tone Private Line or Digital Private Line options. They were also capable of multi-frequencies for Simplex, Normal Full Duplex or Reverse Full Duplex. They were built to operate on 120/240 VAC 50-60 Hz, Internal Batteries in a Low Power mode and external 12 VDC.

The distinct difference between the SYS and the SXS was the additional hardware for loading the Encryption Keys into the Hybrids. If for any reason, the agency didn't want anyone to know what conversations were taking place at the repeater itself, there was Code Erase button that would blow away the encryption & the 12 KB Securenet could not be Decoded on the repeater. The repeater would revert back to a transparent mode of operation in Securenet, everything would sound like "white noise" or like open squelch noise.

Most of the suitcase repeaters were set up in a standard repeat frequency format, meaning Tx Low and Rx High. The only exception to the rule was when these units were built and shipped outside the U.S.A. International market (Countries) have different frequency band plans.

On the original question for this thread, it states the Model # P1816A but I believe it should also include the letter X because firemedic's unit contains some unusual features such as Coded (Securenet) and Clear (Analog), the ability for a Securenet Voting Clear & Coded Comparator built in, the ability to set up the Telco lines for Equalization, an interface for external modems for Coded operation from the Satellite receive sites and TRC Wire Line Remote Console interface. Firemedic's portable suitcase repeater multi-featured options and I've never seen one like his before ..... it had to come from some U.S. Federal Agency.

One other thing I should mention is if you were to use the Crypto Mode and depending on what version it is will require special FCC Licensing for use of a 25/30 KHz RF Channel.

I've never seen an APCOR suitcase up close but I thought the Paramedics APCOR repeater was on the UHF Band and had some type of a EKG interface that could be attached to the patient so the ER Doctors could monitor the victim's vital signs. It probably has a handset so the Paramedic can communicate with the hospital's ER personnel too. Since APCOR repeaters utilize reverse UHF Frequency Splits, depending on the age of your unit will depend if it has rock bound MX300 Series radios or the Synthesized MX300S programmable radios. Setting the portables up on different frequency pairs will require the internal Duplxers to be retuned for the new frequencies being used.

Dan

[radioinstl]

The lunch box is a Saber-X or an Astro-X you take off the battery and it slides in to the lunchbox, I will try to make some copies of the manual this weekend and post them here

[JOHN 1807]

Dan562,

Thanks for the additional info on suitcase repeaters.

You are indeed correct on the specs of the Apcor, it did include those features and some did have the capability of REPEAT mode,

I have several questions regarding how to change the "standard" repeat format. Another member of the board suggested that I could "reverse" the duplexer, meaning that I can swap the transmit input and the receive input to accomodate the receive-high/transmit-low I am looking to accomplish.

I realize I will have to recrystal both Tx/Rx boards with the appropriate receive crystal and change the transmit offset to acheive the -5Mhz difference.

I am doubting NOBODY here as I learned everything I know so far from everyone on the board--- just looking for a "second opinion" if this will theoretically work before I cook the duplexer

Thanks, John

[SlimBob]

What I have discovered throughout the years /\/\ never has time to do it right the first time but plenty of time to redo the work over & over again, so much for Six Sigma .... or the more recent Digital Six Sigma but I'm not sure if the Digital is a One or a Zero.

Any links explaining Six Sigma?

The only product that exist in Florida is "iDEN" Subscriber otherwise known as the Nextel Subscriber Handhelds. I'm surprised /\/\ hasn't outsource those units over to China doing more Reduction In the U.S. Work Force till there's only /\/\ management sitting in the Corporate Tower Building .... no U.S. employees designing or manufacturing any products.

Dan

Yes. I, like many others, have come to terms with the fact that is that the company that engineered those wonderful radios we all know and love is not the company it once was, nor maybe again.

American Engineering has always been known for it's creativity, but there is something drasticly wrong in the world when we're outsourcing engineering to India, China, Japan, etc. It's not that we're any worse than the above, but the point has to be met somewhere -- if you don't support your own country's products, then what will the next generation do? Now, I'm not one of these "the kids! the kids!" people, but it disturbs me to no end that the only thing that it seems American companies want to do is manage from home soil. And that's a lark, because sooner or later they'll figure out they can outsource that to overseas and consultants.

[Dan562]

Here's the /\/\ website:

http://www.motorola.com/seamless_mobility/

And then in the upper right hand corner there's a field called Search /\/\, enter either SixSigma and/or Digital Six Sigma and start reading about the so-called Product Quality Standards.

Many U.S. Corporations have followed /\/\ Quality Standard and it seems as if Corporate America is in La-La-Land. /\/\'s former CEO Chris Galvin was so memorized with his /\/\BA from Northwestern's Kellogg School of Manangement, he made a statement while at the helm, that everything had been invented in electronics in the last 60 years so Patents and Engineers weren't needed any more. Everyone in the corporation should have a /\/\BA. The only thing wrong with our highly educated /\/\ marketing and product people is, They don't have a clue what their customers really want for products.

Dan

[njh621]

Even though this topic is pretty old, I came across the same Suitcase repeater model that was mentioned earlier. I found a reference to it in the maintenance tech order for the Radio-Type Maintenance Network used in Titan II ICBM sites. The repeater they used is model P43SYS3180BT. I have a diagram I'll be posting soon. It pictures a hand-mic and an external battery case made by a different company.

[RADIOMAN2002]

Old post I know, but I had someone give me a UHF 450 mhz P1851AX suitcase, and I need info on it. Now it's not the run of the mill suitcase, It requires 2 SP MX-330 radios, that slide into pockets on the front. It has a power out meter and about 6 switches for configuration. The transmit radio doesn't work. I tried all the modules, traced all the lands, but the radio doesn't want to put out power. I have plenty of MX radios, but I noticed that the TX radio has jumpers all over the board. Does anyone have a book, or know the part number for one, or even scan the board layout with the jumpers for me. BTW the book for the standard MX P43 or P44SYS suitcase used to be available, don't know about the one that uses a Saber. All of the suitcase repeaters I own now sport MX-S radios. Makes it a lot easier to reprogram.

[njh621]

Hm...apparently I forgot to make good on my promise to post those diagrams. In any case, here they are: