XTS3000 and encryption problem

[kt2728]

i have a xts3k mod1 and des-xl/ofb module installed in it. both the module and radio came from a very reputible batlab member. the problem is when the encryption is turned when on a astro channel it transmits encryption in ofb, but under the encrytpion tab for the given personality i checked the "xl on transmit" box. i have 2 other xts 3ks mod 3 and i do not have this problem they have the same module in them as the model one. i have tried swapping out a module with one of the model 3 radios with no change. the really weired thing is if it a des-xl signal then it will properly transmit a desl-xl signal. also the dsp and host are recent but i dont the numbers right off.

any tips ?

thanks

kt

[Bruce1807]

Correct me if I'm wrong but is not DES-OFP for Astro.
and DES/XL securenet.

[MotoRadioMan]

It would seem to me that your receive type is not set correctly to use DES-XL standalone. Remember, you CAN encrypt ASTRO traffic with DES-XL. Now, if you want to use DES-XL alone (i.e. NON-ASTRO) set the receive type to Analog only. Mixed mode or digital (regardless of how transmit is set) will use ASTRO as the encrypted path. Make sense???

73,
A.D.

[kt2728]

i was up to late last night. let me clarify a little.

i am wanting to encrypt des-xl on an astro channel. if i turn the radio on and transmit, it encrypts in ofb mode even though the "xl on transmit box" is checked.

if this radio recives a des-xl signal it will de-crypt it and then it will transmit a des-xl signal. it just won't start up and tx a des-xl on an astro channel.

if i setup securenet on an analog channel it works like it is suposed to.

hope this helps

and thanks for the responses

kt

[Astro Spectra]

OK - check the voice key strapping on the Secure II page of the Conventional Personality.

[Hightower]

What is the Host/DSP of the radio, and what firmware is the UCM?

Had the same exact problem - it was a mis-match in firmware in the radio vs/ the UCM. The UCM had new f/w, while the radio had older f/w. Once the radio was uplifted, problem went away.

[kt2728]

the radio has recent firmware i bought it jan.the model 3 i bought at the same time is 7.25 and 8.03.03 . and they all were depot fresh. the ucm is 3.57 and the first umc is 3.53

kt

[misawatech]

I'm still trying to figure out this encryption stuff so bear with me and correct me if I am wrong.

XL on transmit is only good for a DES only encryption module/type. DES-ofb is another animal. Since it seems like you ahve a multi key radio, don't you have to for multiple encryption types, it may be the old problem with getting the radio to use the pproper key in the proper slot.

It sounds like your first slot is loaded with the OFB key so that is why it transmits in the OFB mode. When an XL signal is recieved the radio knows that it must return the communications in the same mode that is why it transmits in XL at that time. I think that has to do with the voice key strapping as Astro Spectra stated.

This is my theory so please if I am wrong I am open suggestions

[akardam]

It sounds like your first slot is loaded with the OFB key

There's no such thing as a DES key vs a DES-XL key vs a DES-OFB key. A DES key will work with any of the DES-* algos, as it is the algo that changes, not the key type or size.

In Astro and Astro25 radios, you can have any combination of multi-algo hardware and singlekey/multikey flash. For example:

- You can have single-algo hardware and the multikey flash option. Example: Use 5 different DES-XL keys.
- You can have multi-algo hardware and the singlekey flash option. Example: Use 1 key in DES-XL mode on analog and DES-OFB mode on digital.



With regards to the original problem...

Firmware looks recent enough, so that's probably not the issue.

Are you absolutely sure that on the problem radio, the conventional personality that you're trying to use does indeed have the DES-XL default transmit? The reason I ask is I've had more'n one occasion where I got tripped up by a setting I could SWEAR I double checked, only to find that no, it was that OTHER personality I was thinking of... (one of the reasons I really love the newer Astro25 relationship between personalities and "channels", but I digress...)

An interesting tidbit or two about the way multikey and multi-algo (XL/OFB) interact:

If you look under Secure Configuration > Multikey > Key ID TX & RX Hangtime, you'll see values for both TX and RX, expressed in ms's, for key hangtime. Let's say you and your mate each have two identical keys loaded into your radios. You default to the key in slot 1, and he defaults to the key in slot 2. Now, if you both have multikey configured correctly, when you key up and TX with the key in slot 1, his radio should, for the duration of the RX, automatically switch to the key in slot 1, even though his default is the key in slot 2. If once you have unkeyed, he keys up within the Key ID RX Hangtime value as programmed into his radio, his radio will continue to use the key in slot 1. You can go back and forth, and both radios will use the key in slot 1 until one or both of you let the hangtime expire. This is, by the way, based on the Key ID. As long as the keys are the same, which slot they are in compared to the other radio is unimportant (used here for the purposes of illustration only).

Now, under Conventional Personality > Secure > DES-XL TX Default, the help file states:

When checked, enable the radio to use the DES-XL algo as the default for all encrypted voice and data transmissions while operating on the current Conventional Personality. This is only true provided the radio-user does not initiate transmission during the Key ID RX Hangtime (emphasis mine).

This may help to explain your difficulties, and it's something that I ran into at Dayton this year. I normally run OFB by default, as most of the crew around here has OFB capabilities. However, most of the crew at Dayton were running XL by default, due to the preponderance of Astro Saber DES-XL only modules. We were all using the same key, of course. When a XL only radio keyed up, and I responded within 3 seconds, even though the radio was not programmed for XL by default, it would key up in XL and the folks that were XL only could hear me. Pretty nead, though it can be confusing for folk who are not aware of the capability.

Anyway, hopefully some of the above helped. Double check the settings. If all else fails, pull codeplugs from all radios concerned and ask someone here to review them. Sometimes another pair of eyes does the trick.

[kt2728]

i double checked the Xl on transmit box it is checked in the personality and the general tab under secure confguration. the rx and tx hang times were both set at 3000 (ms). but i keyed up my xl only radio so this radio could hear it and let it set for 5 minutes and it will still key up in des- xl ?????? it only reverts to ofb if i change the channel or turn the radio off.

[Hightower]

I bet when you go into test mode, OFB is first, then XL second. Get your UCM reflashed maybe for XL only, or see if the UCM can be reflashed to have XL be the first algo, OFB being the second algo.

IThis could be a firmware problem in the radio. New firmware has bugs just like old firmware. Hell, one version of the XTS5k's formware made the PL not work . So don't count out bad firmware in radio

I had a 3K do this too, took me a while to figure WTF was going on. Slapped in a newer UCM, and it worked. Other than that I don't remember a whole bunch about it, but it had old ass firmware in the radio, and the UCM had the latest

Sounds like Motorols need to be :o slapped

[kt2728]

what is the latest firmware version for the xts3000?

kt

[jmr061]

7.71

[kt2728]

it looks like i was very wrong on the host and dsp it has 05.60.00 and n6.05.02 i had looked at one of my other xts3ks with the display. my new questions are; how old is this firmware and could it be causing my troubles?

thanks

kt

[jmr061]

Ah yeah that needs a serious upgrade. That pretty old.

Jason