Ordering a Flashkey from MOL

[cms1126]

I have been trying to find the a FLASHkey on MOL and I think i found it. Can someone confirm if this is it? Item number RVN4212A. I need to upgrade the firmware in 2 xts5000's. The firmware that's in them i ridiculously old (4.xx.xx) do i need to upgrade in steps?

[Mfire39]

I have been trying to find the a FLASHkey on MOL and I think i found it. Can someone confirm if this is it? Item number RVN4212A?

do i need to upgrade in steps?

No & No..


-Marc

[akardam]

It sounds like you're talking about a firmware refresh, e.g. you don't want to add any new features, just upgrade the firmware of the radios.

Unfortunately most people can't just buy such a refresh straight from Motorola, they have to go through a local dealer, and finding one who knows what they're doing in this department can be difficult.

The process, though, is straightforward enough. They fill out a form giving the type and model number of the radio, and how many radios you want to flash. Motorola then sends a flashkit out containing a flashkey with the appropriate number of flashes, plus a CD-ROM with the current firmware files on them. Each flash costs $75 at list. The good thing with the XTS5000 is that if you have an OEM programming cable (either serial or USB), you're all set to flash the radios - no special cables or SRIBs required.

[radioinstl]

ENH: RADIO SOFTWARE REFRESH XTS5000 Q880AA $75.00

[spectragod]

And yes, as per M, refresh on any XTL or XTS that is less than 8.00.00 needs to be done in steps. First bump to 8.00.01, and the second to your choice of newer FW, 15.00 is the latest IIRC.

[Mfire39]

And yes, as per M, refresh on any XTL or XTS that is less than 8.00.00 needs to be done in steps. First bump to 8.00.01, and the second to your choice of newer FW, 15.00 is the latest IIRC.

This is the second time I've heard this, and in my opinion it's BS on Moto's end. Do they give you 2 flashes on the i-button for the price of one? And do they give you the 2 .cvn's also? You can take a RAM or BRAVO vocon from R01 to R15 all day long with a serial cable, and have no problems related to not step upgrading.

-Marc

[N4KVE]

My XTS 5000 went from 6 to 14 in 1 refresh step. A friend did it for me at the local Micky Dee's & the radio seems to work the same, but it's used on UHF ham freq's. The only difference I noticed was in the battery menu, with a few slight changes. GARY N4KVE

[akardam]

This is the second time I've heard this, and in my opinion it's BS on Moto's end. Do they give you 2 flashes on the i-button for the price of one? And do they give you the 2 .cvn's also? You can take a RAM or BRAVO vocon from R01 to R15 all day long with a serial cable, and have no problems related to not step upgrading.

Has it occured to you that perhaps it has nothing to do with the processor or the vocon?

[Mfire39]

This is the second time I've heard this, and in my opinion it's BS on Moto's end. Do they give you 2 flashes on the i-button for the price of one? And do they give you the 2 .cvn's also? You can take a RAM or BRAVO vocon from R01 to R15 all day long with a serial cable, and have no problems related to not step upgrading.

Has it occured to you that perhaps it has nothing to do with the processor or the vocon?

Ok, well maybe you can explain Moto's reasoning. Why do they recommend the step bumps? In the documentation that "recommends" these step intervals, what info do they give as to why it needs to be done in this order? I know that this was the case with the Pro series, but now there is an i-button involved for the customer ordering the refresh. Will they provide the end user with the R08.xx.xx .cvn and the current one? And do they give you 2 refreshes for the price of 1 to accomplish this? Can anyone comment that has followed these step bump guidelines? I'm throwing this out there because I'm curious as to what errors or failures were reported that caused Moto to come out with this suggestion..

-Marc

[The Pager Geek]

There is no "stepping" in the A25 series.

The only concern was coming off of version 11. If you used version 12 CPS to upgrade a radio at version 11 firmware, there was a risk of 01/82'ing the radio. It was hit or miss if it bricked the radio.

To validate not needing to "step", look at the ordering process. At no time do they ask for the existing revision of the radio, nor do they send you an older version to "step" to.

To order, you must provide:
Model Number
Existing Flashcode
Existing operation (Analog Conventional, Digital Conventional, etc)
Options desired

That's it.

I have taken radios from 2.02 to 12 without any issue. In fact, it's fun looking at the service menu of a radio programmed with CPS12 and FW2. Crazy sh!t in the service menu...

tpg

[spectragod]

I ran into this during rebanding. As far as the I button flashes and CVN's, it was provided for us, by Sprint/Nextel. I'll have to see if I can find the documentation tomorrow at the shop in reference to the going to the 8.XX.XX first.


I did try and go from the 5.XX.XX that we had right to 14.XX.XX, and it did go. But there are steps involved, just as there are with the MTS radio's that had less than 5.61.XX, they had to get 2 bumps. FWIW, they did ask us the FW versions of the radios we had to flash, they paid us to go touch them before the order was completed so as to make sure we got the correct # of flashes.

I would like to know what for sure the reason is, I will say this, out of re-banding 6k+ radio's, we have bricked 5, the local moto shop has bricked 2+ dozen, and still is doing so as I type this.

[The Pager Geek]

It's cool, I'm not arguing.

I'd like to know why they are saying you need to when the (common) ordering practice doesn't require identifying the existing firmware revision, there are no warnings about previous revision stepping when ordering, and lastly, it's been done COUNTLESS times without stepping.

I'm fully aware some Motorola procedures aren't exactly broadcast everywhere, so this one interests me.

tpg

[spectragod]

It's cool, I'm not arguing.

I'd like to know why they are saying you need to when the (common) ordering practice doesn't require identifying the existing firmware revision, there are no warnings about previous revision stepping when ordering, and lastly, it's been done COUNTLESS times without stepping.

I'm fully aware some Motorola procedures aren't exactly broadcast everywhere, so this one interests me.

tpg

Oh, I understand, no arguing here either, how about this one.....

On the 05 heads that had the "old" model # head, those too had to be replaced as they would cause issues after flashing the radio's with new firmware. I never got a answer when I questioned that.

So, along with the double flash, I'd like to know the reason for the head switch as well.

[The Pager Geek]

On the 05 heads that had the "old" model # head, those too had to be replaced as they would cause issues after flashing the radio's with new firmware. I never got a answer when I questioned that.

Yup, same here. I've had a bunch of "old" heads that went from "Fail 05/whatever" to working ok with a firmware upgrade and a resync.

No clue there either.

Oh well...

tpg

[akardam]

I don't have any official documentation I can point to, because I was never provided with any. What I can share is experience with cases with system support and the product group.

Specifically, this deals with the O series heads and the way that the head firmware interacts with the host firmware. The O series head was originally released concurrent with host version R06. Starting at host version R08, the host firmware was modified so that it would be backwards compatable from that point on. So, for example, a control head synced with a R08 radio would work on a radio with R10, but not the other way around.

This is the reason as it was explained to me for the two-step process, at least on the XTL series (I have no specifics on the XTS series). If one had a radio with less than host version R08, one would first flash the radio to host R08 through the control head microphone/GCAI connector. This assures that the control head is flashed first, and that if for some reason the flashing of the radio thru the control head in bypass mode failed, the radio would still operate with the control head.

Then, one can flash the radio to the current firmware through the TIB GCAI connector (if remote or high power), or through the rear accessory connector. This way, the radio is flashed first and the control head second, and if the flashing of the radio suceeds but the flashing of the control head thru the radio fails, the radio would still operate with the control head, enough to let you then sync the control head to the version that corresponds with the host version in the radio.

This is why you see new control head sync/firmware files released from time to time. Each newer version incorporates the very latest, as well as most if not all previous versions of control head firmware. If the control head is unable to communicate with the radio to determine what its host version is, but you know what it is, you can key it in and CPS will go look in the control head sync file for a matching control head firmware version, and flash it into the head, at which point it should in theory start working with your radio.

The long and the short of it is, yes, a straight to latest flash might work, but as others have said, there are known field flashing failures due to doing so, and this procedure was recommended to reduce if not eliminate the possibility of failure and allow a safe refresh process up to the latest.

Hopefully this answers at least some of the questions.

[cms1126]

Thank you for everyone's help. My local dealer isn't very helpfull when it comes to individuals, not agencies. So it looks like ill be reaching out. Will a dealer order the ibutton and then give it to me to do on my own? Or am i going to have to pay the labor charges too. Again thanks for all the info!