Ontario Hydro 99 Channel Lowband Maxtrac

[bellersley]

I have some questions about this radio, I'm hoping someone can help me out!

First, let's work with the assumption that the RSS and firmware image are available.

If one had a 16 channel Maxtrac 300 that was 42-50MHz, with the HLN9313 board with all the fixin's, what all would need to take place?

From what I gather, first off you would need to burn the firmware to an EPROM, which I can assume is the same IC as the regular Maxtrac firmware is contained in.

Secondly, I understand you need to upgrade the codeplug IC as well. Nand had stated back in the day that it 28C64.

So, I've got my freshly burnt 27C256 firmware chip, and my blank 28C64 codeplug chip, they're installed. I follow the procedures and blank the board with Lab, then reinitialize it with the 99 Channel RSS. And that's it.

Am I missing something, or is it that easy?

Anyone with some experience on these things, I'd love to hear from you!

Specifically, do you still have the ability to scan?

Thanks a million guys!

[bellersley]

Second theory, incase the first one fails!

I've never used or played with a Maratrac before, aside from seeing one of the heads.

I understand they are very similar to the Maxtrac, just with more power and a larger deck.

Again, excuse my ignorance about the Maratrac. But, assuming the logic board is the same (or similar) to that of the Maxtrac, could you just remove the firmware IC and the codeplug IC and install them in the maxtrac, and away you go?

[Max-trac]

Don't forget to change the jumpers on the back of the logic board to access the larger chip you put in (see batlabs for info).
Then you will need to hack the channels to allow out of band, (assuming you want to do other than 42-50).
And don't forget to do the full alignment after initializing (F2 replace logic board again).
I have done a bunch of them....
It will scan.
Some differences are;
It will only beep when passing ch 1 when changing channels.
If you hold the up or down channel, it will scan thru the channels faster.
You can (optionally) set it up for TWO BANKS of 50 channels, selectable by holding in the mon button where you would normally be selecting the noise blanker on/off, and indicated by an extra hack mark in the display. They suggest using this for putting the direct channels in. IE ch 1 would be repeater, -1 would be direct on the output.. (I don't use this feature).

The maratrac chip swap didn't work, but I have put a maratrac logic and RF board in a Maxtrac chassis (with maxtrac firmware) , and it worked.

[wavetar]

Then you will need to hack the channels to allow out of band, (assuming you want to do other than 42-50).

Do you mean you have been successful in getting it to work in VHF/UHF? You'd be the first I've heard, if that's the case.

Todd

[bellersley]

Well, I have a VHF and a UHF Maxtrac sitting here collecting dust. IC's are cheap. Perhaps I'll give it a try.

[Max-trac]

No, I have only done the 99ch 42-50 maxtrac, and hacked it to use on 6meters and go below 42 a little....

[eleet]

Wow, old thread. I've got a 99 channel UHF maxtrac here. I can help others use the 99 channel logic board in any conventional V/U/800 radio. If there's interest I'll post details.

[Max-trac]

Please do!

Wow, old thread. I've got a 99 channel UHF maxtrac here. I can help others use the 99 channel logic board in any conventional V/U/800 radio. If there's interest I'll post details.

[eleet]

Okay, I've got everything almost ready to present. I got a lot of help from repeater-builder.com regarding the MDF file (there is a pretty big page there about the MDF, and its deciphered contents). Here is an overview of the process:

1. Modify the 99 RSS for 'Lab' features - This allows you access to the EEPROM editor and the ability to program out of band freqs in the modes, if you are going to do that.
2. Copy the RSS to another directory. We need to have a different copy of the RSS for each type of radio.
3. Modify the MDF file. Change the last entry (Product line 0x17, Model 0x63) to match the parameters of your radio. I change the model number (ex. D44) because it shows in the RSS, but it's not necessary. The important bytes of the record are the band, tuning record, and power level. There is an 0x63 byte here to represent 99 modes - leave that alone. I'm going to parse the MDF file from the 99 RSS and post it, but in the meantime, find the record for your radio in the MDF and update the last record with your model info., keeping the 0x17, 0x63 bytes at the beginning for the product/model and the 0x63 in the middle to keep 99 modes.
4. Go into the EEPROM editor and record B63B thru B68C. This is the tuning data. Just photograph the two pages.
5. Blank the board.
6. Initialize the board with 99 RSS. It will look like it's going to blow a low band radio. Just enter the serial number. RSS initializes the board with Product line 0x17, Model 0x63, and low band tuning data.
7. Go into the EEPROM editor and update B63B thru B68C. Write each screenful to the radio as you complete it.
8. Read codeplug with RSS. If you did everything correctly, the new model number will appear, and the RSS will read the codeplug successfully. The new model number is connected to the MDF file, and if RSS says that "Code Plug has Error" then the tuning data is corrupt or the MDF file has the wrong byte for tuning params.
9. Update accessory options to shut off the emergency input. Save to archive and program codeplug. Radio should NOT make any error tones anymore.
10. Enjoy.

Further in the pipe, I have patches to both the 32 mode and 99 mode ROMs that will allow you to maintain power and deviation regulation when you transmit out of band. For the UHF radio its design starts at 440 so ham stuff is no problem. But we have all seen that output can be MAX or ZERO when running a low band radio on 6m. There are two things we can do: move the 'start' frequency of the radio's idea of it's 'band,' or widen the 'bucket size' so that the radio does not jump past the 16th bucket when we go to 52MHz.

[Max-trac]

Cool, I will play with it. Since the 99rss only runs on a slow machine, I was trying to mod the 1997 version but got stuck on how to asign larger "blocks" for both the rss and codeplug memory.

RE the tuning out of band. Please make the UHF go down to 430. The VHF go down to 144. Low split lowband down to at least 29, and the high-split up to 54. And the 900 cover the whole 902-928, and note, there are two VCOs that shift at 903 on the conventional (I think, the trunking shift is slightly different)

Further in the pipe, I have patches to both the 32 mode and 99 mode ROMs that will allow you to maintain power and deviation regulation when you transmit out of band. For the UHF radio its design starts at 440 so ham stuff is no problem. But we have all seen that output can be MAX or ZERO when running a low band radio on 6m. There are two things we can do: move the 'start' frequency of the radio's idea of it's 'band,' or widen the 'bucket size' so that the radio does not jump past the 16th bucket when we go to 52MHz.

[eleet]

Aside from the changes in the 99 RSS to force the model to 0x17/0x63 every time the codeplug is written, they also had to account for the new position of the EEPROM start (0x6000 vs 0x7800) and the associated pointers in the rest of the codeplug. For instance, a normal 32 channel codeplug will have a pointer to the first mode at 0x7810, and the 99 channel should radio should have this at 0x6010.

To turn the 99 RSS into LAB, search for 00 00 01 00 01 00 and change to 00 00 05 00 05 00. I'll detail this in the final write up for the process, along with better instructions and information to change the MDF.

With regards to the ROM modifications, I'm not sure how the 900 MHz stuff works, I understand the firmware may be different for those radios. However, there is a list in the ROM, and once the entries are understood, anyone is free to try what they like when changing them.

For the UHF radios, a workaround explained already on repeater-builder is to initialize the radio as a UHF low split. The Low and Mid split both use the same value as the "base," which is something like 402 or 403 MHz. This workaround can help bring new utility to a low spec logic board - the one without EPROMs or signalling - since the ROM on that board is not accessible for modification.

[kb2crk]

Great info. I will need to try this. it would be nice to have 99 channel in my maxtracs.

[Satelite]

Hello:
Yes old thread for sure.
The 99ch Maxtrac conversion was busted way back in time and it was EKLB and the famous but not forgotten Monty Scisco that got together and got it done.
They had the max99 program freqs spread out from 25 to 999 mhz per the program so no hex editing was needed.
You needed to use the corect rf bd for the band you were converting the radio to so it would tx properly.
As an example you couldnt take a lo band rf bd and change it to a vhf.
You used a maxtrac vhf rf bd to do vhf ect.
You couldnt change a lo band rf bd to a vhf per the programming.
The rf bds were specific to there band and not changable to another band without many component changes which made the task pretty much unfeasible.
The only issue that i knew existed was during the bd reinitiation you needed to manualy set the soft pot values per the band you were setting up for as the program was not as of that time = was not yet changed in the program to do it for you and would set the soft pot values for a low band as per the programs original design.
PJ as i understood was contacted by EKLB and a discusion was suposably done as to the legalities as to offering the maxtrac conversion as a kit to be made available to members but as i understand it wasnt decided whether or not it could legaly be offered ect.
So the max 99 conversion was not pursued any further and with monty also passing away during the process it came to a sudden halt and with no further interest it died.
Was there a VHF and a UHF version converted in the maxtrac 99ch versions during this process ?
The answer is absolutely YES.
I was fortunate enough to land a VHF 146 to 174 mhz 45 watt converted 99ch maxtrac version and it works well for me.
So it got done and the modified program allowed any conversion from 25mhz to 999mhz as long as you used the proper rf bd and firm ware to match the band you were going for.
I recieved in detail info on the process to convert a american maxtrac into a 99ch ontario maxtrac but you would need the proper firmware version number VS 5.35 not the 5.34 used in the american maxtrac.
And correct you need to use the 28c64 chip rather than the normal chip found in the american maxtrac.
The 28c64 chip has the larger memory capabilities needed for 99ch operation and it has 28 pins rather than the 24 pin chip normaly found in the american maxtrac.
If you look at U-805 proms location on the HLN9313 logic bd you will see the 24 pin prom and 4 extra unused slots available on the bd for the 28 pin 28c64 prom.
The 24 pin prom must be removed and the 28 pin 28c64 prom must be placed in this location.
Hint = Use a 28 pin socket so you can simply plug in the 28 pin prom rather than hard solder it in so you can if needed later remove ect.
In order to gain access to the 28 pin proms extra memory you DO need to remove the HLN9313 logic bd and change jumpers on the bottom side of the logic bd to get access to those 4 extra pins of the 28c64 prom.
At JU-802 you need to remove the jumper leaving it open.
At JU-803 you need to instal the jumper from 802 to close the circuit.
At JU-804 you need to remove the jumper.
At JU-805 you need to instal the jumper from 804 to close the circuit.
By doing the above you will set the logic bd up to gain access to the 4 extra pins in the 28C64 prom for the extra memory needed for 99ch operation.
The prom version VS5.35 and the Max99 rss program are both no longer available from motorola.
So you will need to get a prom burnt to duplicate a VS5.35 prom version for the radio.
You still use a 27c256 = 24 pin prom but it Must have the version VS5.35 burnt into it and not a 5.34 version program.
You will also need to get the Max99 program and edit it to allow out of band programming.
AND NO THE MAX99 PROGRAM WOULD NOT ALLOW THE SHIFT KEY OUT OF BAND ENTRIES.
I can provide you with the Proms if needed .
No rss programming support being offered.
If you are fortunate enough to have the Max99 program then you can convert one if you really wanted.
But with a 99ch maratrac at higher wattage over the maxtrac available - then whats the point in doing it ?
Fun to do though ill admit.
Satelite

[eleet]

Hey Satelite, thanks for the history. I wish it had been published before. I'd like everyone to know the tricks, so that they can use the information if they have the skills.

Patching the MDF is the only way to get this done; saving the radio's old tuning data and replacing it after initialization is a required step. I'm sure Monty & co. had figured this out. Simply widening the band limits will get you nowhere on VHF Hi or UHF, even if you do the math to get the same data programmed in the synthesizer. The radio won't tune at all. A different low band split might tune OK but the radio will exhibit the 'randomness' of power and deviation control.

With regards to converting the board, I can't foresee any need to convert the EEPROM back to the smaller one. There is probably no need to change the firmware back to the 32 channel firmware either. The 99 channel firmware seems to operate fine with a 32 channel (or 2 channel even) codeplug, and the 32 channel firmware will act normally with the larger EEPROM installed on the board. However, if I were to pass a radio like this along, I would replace the firmware with the original unless the new owner is equipped to deal with this hack-job.

[sataraid1]

If VHF Maxtracs had any future beyond ham band conversions, I'd be all over this.

[Satelite]

Hello:
Widening the band limit in the Max99 from its normal 42 to 50 mhz to 25 to 999 mhz was so you could enter the freqs needed only.
The normal Max99 rss program only allowed entries from 42 to 50 mhz and you could not use the shift key entry method to get out of band entries.
And yes i agree totaly with you and i tried to explain this point.
It did not do any of the soft pot tunings as it was still the lo band soft pots per the program so you yourself needed to do the soft pot tunings manualy yourself on the corect bd to get it to work properly.
It seems you may have found another way by hex editing to get around this where as it was done manually per radio for that paticular band it was being setup for.
In your case it sounds like the soft pot tuning info was taken from the corect mdf file for the band you wanted and added to the Max99 rss or did you convert the american maxtrac rss to go 99ch.
Here it was done on the Max99 program.
Was yours done on a american maxtrac rss program by chance or the canadian max99 rss program ?
Satelite

[eleet]

The Canadian/SP RSS for the 99 channel maxtrac is used. I guess the gist of it is that they did not fully disable the ability for the RSS to work with radios in other bands. Most of it is still in there, but they tried to 'restrict' you to a lowband in a couple of important places.

It could be made better, but it works pretty well for now, with these minimal edits and shoving the original tuning data back in after the boorish RSS makes a low band board out of your blank. There is a byte or two in there, like the Spectra but not so obvious , that is unique for each band.

[Satelite]

Hello:
No we did not get to the point of changing the mdf files per the uhf /vhf bands ect and getting them added to the program so the user could pick and reinitiate as needed since no real interest was seen here on batlabs some years back for making a 99ch maxtrac in other band limts and pretty much gave it up back then and stayed with changing the soft pot tunings per each and every mradio which was a major PAIN.
Written above was a comment to the effect of = If this had any use other than HAM id be all over it.
Well if your referring to the new narrow band rules in 2013 then be aware that Motorola does sell a 12.5 khz narrow band kit to convert the maxtrac/m100/radius m200 series/gm300/m10/m120/m130 radios.
Motorola even states right on there 25 to 12.5 conversion sheet that the kit will and can be used in these radios listed above.
The kit will convert any maxtrac radio in VHF to 12.5 khz narrow band if it has a RF BD number of HLD4321C or later and also VHF RF BD number HLD4322C or later.
The kit for UHF will convert any maxtrac if the RF BD number is HLE9310B or later .
The VHF 12.5 conversion kit is motorola part number HLN9575 .
The UHF 12.5 conversion kit is motorola part number HLN9576 .
These were being made available in june 1995 per the date on the conversion sheet in looking at .
Or get your hands on a used 12.5 narrow band gm300 as an example and rob the 12.5 specific components and use them in the maxtrac.
Same conversion kit is used for all the radios listed above.
Only diference between the UHF and VHF conversion kits is two 1/8 watt resitors so even if you got a narrow band uhf but wanted to use the parts for vhf you could by just getting two diferent resistor values to swap out .
Filters and balance of the VHF or UHF conversion kits were otherwise the same components other than the already mentioned two resistors.
satelite

[eleet]

Satelite, I have not seen these hints about narrowbanding a VHF radio - thank you!

Now that you have brought it up, it is rather difficult to understand how the radio tunes its frequency. No-one may ever determine how to change the step from 5 or 12.5 kHz so that the splinter channels could be used. (It could be built in already too, I really have no idea what it's doing!)

I don't know the rules about radio mods and type certification. So, I am assuming that deviations from Motorola's designs or firmware will void it for transmitting on most services. Sure it is an old POS to a commercial user, but if they are laying around they are cute little radios to hack around on for ham purposes. It is easy to mount, probably won't break, and the audio is super for a front panel speaker. I have the UHF radio set up for a few amateur repeaters, all coordinated simplex channels in amateur band, and to rx only almost 50 freqs in other services. Cool, it was headed for the landfill before.

[d119]

Only diference between the UHF and VHF conversion kits is two 1/8 watt resitors so even if you got a narrow band uhf but wanted to use the parts for vhf you could by just getting two diferent resistor values to swap out .
Filters and balance of the VHF or UHF conversion kits were otherwise the same components other than the already mentioned two resistors.
satelite

I'd be interested to know exactly what the conversion kits for the respective radios consist of. I wonder if the parts could be procured for less than the cost Motorola is charging for the kit. I've got a fleet of about 30 MaxTracs that could continue on in service if we could get these kits on the cheap... Any details? Scans of the conversion instructions?

[Satelite]

Hello:
Id be willing to scan the motorola instruction sheet on the 12.5 conversion to be put up here for all to use if somebody had the ability to do it.
As stated above the conversion 12.5 kits will work on maxtracs with the corect rf bds mentioned in a earlier above posting.
Im not interested in typing it all out.
And i have recieved a few reqeusts for the image of the VS5.35 prom so others could duplicate it with there own burners.
I cant send the image now because i purchased a new windows 7 computer and it does not have a 3.5 floppy drive for retrieving the image from the 3.5 floppy disk that i stored it on and also discovered my windows 7 computer doesnt have a 25 pin port to hook up my older willem prom reader / burner.
All i have is a few of the proms with the VS5.35 program on it and a few 28c64 proms .
This 99ch conversion project was a long time back for me and id have to dig out my notes and schematics on it to be sure as to what all we did to do the conversions.
satelite

[eleet]

I think you will need to find an older computer to use the programmer. A colleague still uses a willem type and always has to use an ancient laptop. mcumall.com has a couple of good programmers for a c-note or so, I have an easypro 90 but the top2000 series look nice too.

[Satelite]

Hello:
Its eigther i replace the mother bd on my windows 2000 as it had the 25 pin port and 3.5 floppy drive bay or update to the willem GQ-4x burner which is USB port only.
Probably wind up doing both and use the w2k pc as a backup.
This way ill be able to continue prom support when needed.
Already bought the w2k mother bd so im probably going to have the w2k pc up and running within a week when time permits.
satelite

[sataraid1]

Written above was a comment to the effect of = If this had any use other than HAM id be all over it.
Well if your referring to the new narrow band rules in 2013 then be aware that Motorola does sell a 12.5 khz narrow band kit to convert the maxtrac/m100/radius m200 series/gm300/m10/m120/m130 radios.

I've looked over the kit instructions, and if it were a simple matter of replacing components, I'd have already tried it.

However, I don't have the service monitor needed to perform an alignment after the work is done, and I doubt that paying someone to do the work would be very cost effective.

[Satelite]

Hello:
Once again i have reqeusts for the MAX99 U-804 eprom used in the canadian ontario hydro 99ch low band 42 to 50 mhz radio and and will dig out the win2000 pc that i had the info stored on and can burn the program onto a prom.
So nows a good time if anyones interested in getting one.
When the win2000 pc goes back into storage its gonna be there awhile id suspect so if you want a prom nows the time.
Also as a mention i can burn the 5.34 prom and also have the ability to burn the 900 mhz 16 ch conventional prom for the maxtrac line.
The 900 mhz 16ch conventional also uses a 27c256 prom for your info.
PMs please as batlabs system wouldnt except my hot mail account.
Satelite

[Satelite]

Hello:
Have reqeusts for the 5.34 prom and if i get enough interest ill burn the maxtrac 99ch VS5.35 prom or the maxtrac 16 channel 900 mhz conventional prom too.
I did dig out the old win2000 computer awhile back and will again if i get enough interest to make it worth my time.
So if interested nows the time cuz when i put the win2000 away itll stay there for awhile id suspect.
PM me if interested and how many of what ect.
Satelite

[kb2crk]

I have an interest and I have a ontario hydro maxtrac in my collection now. it would be nice to make a uhf and vhf counterparts for the shack.

[eleet]

kb2crk if you upgrade a logic board and want to try this hit me with a PM. I have a writeup with photographs (screenshots) that I have not put the finishing touches on and finished yet, but it has managed to help others get these going.

After a couple of years, I'd like to say that the 99 channel guy is extremely serviceable after you get over the hump of bitbanging the old tuning data into the radio and modifying the RSS. So long as you keep the radios straight (Don't program your UHF 99 with your RSS copy for Low Band) I have not noticed any operational issues.

For the VHF and Low Band radios, I did come up with patches to the firmwares that maintain power and deviation control on these radios out of band, so you don't have to wire up manual adjustments for these characteristics. I posted them here to the batboard and you can make the changes before you copy the 99 channel rom for these radios. You can then use the original rom in the UHF radio, because original the firmware works fine down to 440 MHz.

[PETNRDX]

I hate to bring up such an old thread, but I finally have a 99 ch radio working.
Questions are, did someone really find an easier way (at least easier to understand) to get this to work on V/U/900?
I can see where V & U might make sense.
And, does anyone know if I choose to use the Repeat/Direct button feature ( which is my main desire ) can I program something less than 99 channels?
Example would be can I have something like 38 pairs ( R & D ) not have unneeded channels.
My guess is that say 1 thru 38 could be programmed as repeat, and 50 thru 89 would be the "direct".
I am hoping that I could just put in 1 thru 38.
Before I kill the radio and have to re-init all over again, maybe someone knows.

[kcbooboo]

Which button do you intend to use for the Repeat/Direct feature? And what screen do you use to configure the buttons?

Bob M.

[PETNRDX]

It is built into the RSS.
In the Radio Wide screen there is a choice for "talkaround".
If that is selected, then a "long push" of the MON button puts it in talkaround, and causes a "d" to blink on the display.

[Satelite]

Hello:
As a clarification : The rss for the max99 radio was edited to allow any freq from 26 to 999 mhz but you had to match proper bds ect to do those.
Even though the max99 rss was edited to 26 to 999 mhz it didnt do any radio tuning other than the original 42 to 50 mhz spread already in the rss.(Orig max99 spread from m was 42 to 50 only and shift trick methodprogramming outside that range DID NOT WORK on Max99 rss)
Im not aware of anyone doing the conversion in a 800 or 900 mhz configeration .
I am however aware of a individual here on the bd that has done a VHF version and have seen the UHF version done.
Its been awhile but as i recall it was discovered that the vhf and uhf tuning values were suposeably in the max99 original rss but blocked by some programs in the max99 rss that kept it in the 42 to 50 mhz range per tuning.
If i remember those tuning values were edited in the max99 rss to allow acess to the vhf and uhf version.
I myself have not seen the max99 rss thats spose to allow you acess to the other band limits.
I have been contacted by the individual on the VHF version he has and he has offered his phone number and email if i chose to follow up on it and how he acomplished it.
Ill obviously let him post here if he should decide to on his own accord to respect his privacy ect.
I have heard some rumors that the motorola m400 or a motorola maratrac which was in fact 99ch radios in lo band / vhf /uhf bands and did use the same logic bd and think the rf bd was the same in them as in the max 99 radio was actualy put into the maxtrac 300 mobile and then allowed 99 ch operation but with the motorola maratrac or m400 rss at the rated power of the band the maxtrac gave rather than the 100 watt plus seen in the maratrac.
And if they aproached it from that angle then no modifications would be needed as these two radios had the needed changes and chips on the bds per that radios specs anyway.
So not sure what others did or dint do but thats a rumor i have heard.
I myself did see a uhf 99ch UHF version of the maxtrac but cant confirm if it was the maratrac guts or an actual max99 conversion.
Satelite

[eleet]

Satelite,

The maratrac sure supports 99 channels, and has the same boards, but to state the situation as simply as possible, you can't get a "maratrac" to operate a "maxtrac" control head. There are other reasons you shouldn't try that.

The maxtrac came in some ranges that the maratrac didn't, for instance VHF 136 and several UHF splits. All of these (except 800,900) can be updated to 99 channels and you can do it with some hex editing magic. I have summarized the process in this thread. If you need help converting a radio please let me know and I will get you through it.