Notice of No Longer Supported for Maintenance-Spectra+Saber

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:32 pm

The death of ancient analog FM is upon us! Yahoo!!

Check out Motorola On Line and go to the April 28, 2003 announcement concerning intent to "No Longer Support Maintenance and Parts" for a TON of Motorola analog FM radios, such as the old analog Spectra and Saber. As you can see, their days for parts and maintence support are now numbered, as they take their final gasps of air in this new and cruel digital world! That old analog gear must feel like Sadaam did in about February of this year! Wonder what analog Sabers and Spectras will sell for by the ton?

ASTRO Lives! Go Digital!

Larry

Cowthief · Post by **Cowthief** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:59 pm

What usually happens.
/\/\ will take this in trade, on a new,,,.
The end is always the same, /\/\ makes mincemeat out of the old radios.
I worked at a GE radio dealer a few years back, the /\/\ rep told him his radios were expensive to repair, should buy new /\/\ radios.
He called me, I looked up his portable, under warranty, someone had taken channel elements out.
When he confronted the other shop, was told that this was policy, they did not allow foreign equipment on "their" repeater.
He pointed out that his repeater service bill was from GE, they gave him his channel elements.
The game is always the same, money.
Who do you think is behind digital/trunking, but no industry standard?

Monty · Post by **Monty** » Thu May 01, 2003 3:04 pm

HI:

Well?

Give us the URL

I looked at the News releases, and none were found.

BTW: Digital Is OK when it works, but Digital Communication
for normal every day consumer use.....I truly doubt it will ever
be totally accepted accross the board.

And, Although Motorola may not support the products, there
are 1000's, perhaps 10's of 1000's of Independent Service
Techs that have been ( and will glady ) support, and maintain
Spectras and Sabers....All the way down to the componet level

Monty

Cowthief · Post by **Cowthief** » Thu May 01, 2003 3:18 pm

Hello.

I totally agree with Monty, just 'cuz mama /\/\ says so.
Dallas, Texas still has some RCA radios in service.
And lets not forget all the GE PE and PY radios still in daily service.
But as for a giant wave of cheap radios, not if /\/\ can help it.

Thank You.

mancow · Post by **mancow** » Thu May 01, 2003 3:42 pm

ASTRO sucks a fat ****

That's my opinion.

mancow

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Thu May 01, 2003 4:43 pm

Hi, Monte! Regarding your 2 points...

1. The URL is the Home site of Motorola Online (Ms OL). The specific cancellation of support notice can be found under: "Notification of Support Cancellation on Select Equipment," which is included in the "Accessories and Replacement Parts News (Dated April 28, 2003)."

If you can't see this, it is likely that you do not have access to this portion of MOL. Each MOL User, as you know, has their own particular level of access, which is based on whether you a dealer or not, and/or how much Motorola equipment you buy. I'm not a dealer, but I buy a lot of Motorola gear, so I have access to this portion of the MOL site.

2. You mention that there are many 1,000s of Tecs across the country that can repair these analog radios. That's not the point---the issue is that Motorola will NO LONGER be SUPPORTING, NOR SUPPLYING, PARTS (NOR Depot Maintence) for the analog Spectra nor Saber. So, unless someone stockpiles every single conceivable part, you're out of luck even if you are a Heathkit kind of guy.

I suppose one could buy a boatload of analog Spectra and Saber radios for spares and parts.

Larry

mancow · Post by **mancow** » Thu May 01, 2003 4:55 pm

Hey ASTROMODAT I thought I could get you fired up with my last post

Oh well.....

I suppose they do have to stop supporting them at some point.
You've talked before about how you have to have astro capability to gain new federal contracts. I know that our local ATF office still uses the old sytems sabers. Are they able to get by with this because the equipment is already in use and is allowed to remain so until it needs repaired? I've heard that ceratain other federal agencies in the area are issued XTS series portables. It just seems odd that they don't all do a complete switch over at the same time.

mancow

RidgeRunner · Post by **RidgeRunner** » Thu May 01, 2003 5:41 pm

I wouldnt be so sure that analog is just going to dissapear...As far as I know its not even a standard...I could be wrong.

Big BOB · Post by **Big BOB** » Thu May 01, 2003 6:18 pm

Thats just Motorolas best attempt in trying to promote sales on new equipment.

USPSS · Post by **USPSS** » Thu May 01, 2003 6:34 pm

The federal agencies are mandated by NTIA to be narrow band compliant by January 1, 2005. The DOJ / Tres DHS JPO is working west to east to put in Apco P25 trunking systems VHF in the next few years. Seattle is going in right now, ATF has Los Angeles online (it works great) and San Fransisco starts June 1.

The govt. is going to spend many billion dollars for this change and by the time the complete the country Motorola will have some new fangled gadget they will have to buy.

You know ASTRO25 is not P25. Another one of Motorola's tricks.

EKLB · Post by **EKLB** » Thu May 01, 2003 6:36 pm

I wouldnt bet that analog is being dumped by Motorola.

They may stop supporting a analog radio such as the Saber but then again they stopped support on the HT50/P100 and HT90 portables as well.

You can purchase a new analog radio from Motorola today/cant you ?

They are creating a new market by eliminating the older radios therby creating new sales in my opionion.

And i dont find it odd for cancelation of support on a radio sometime in its life due to the age ect.

If you look at any other manufacturer you will see it with them eventualy too.

EKLB

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Thu May 01, 2003 6:59 pm

The Digital P25 "phenomenon" is no different than analog cellular being phased out to digital. Yes, lots of folks gripe about lousy digital cellular quality, but it's irrelevant---digital cellular has completely replaced analog cellular. Most cellular companies no longer support analog, or at least not NEW analog subs.

P25 is the same deal---it's the hand writing on the wall.

Fighting the P25 digital revolution reminds me of 1973 when folks told Engineering students that the slide rule would always live. Then the HP 35 came out!

I had an Enginering Prof who did not allow us to use calculators. His reason: What if you are in the "field" and your batteries fail?! This same [idiot] gave you ZERO credit on hugely complex Calculus problems if your final answer had the wrong sign (+ vs. -). You know why? Because this jerk said if you were a rocket engineer and you had the wrong sign, the rocket would go into the ground instead of straight up.

Remeinds me of the arguments against digital. It's here to stay. Throw away that ancient anlog FM junk!

Yahoo, IMBE!

Larry

Julian · Post by **Julian** » Thu May 01, 2003 7:53 pm

Anyone know how much longer they're going to support batteries for the Saber series? I know we still have awhile, as the Astro Saber was just recently cut. I believe they're still making MX batteries to date, but that may just be because of the Keyloaders. Speaking of that, anyone know why they don't design the keyloader its own battery? The newer style keyloaders use the Visar batteries.

Monty · Post by **Monty** » Thu May 01, 2003 8:38 pm

HI:

I think the real issue here is not with the parts and supplies
becomming obsolete.

They truly will be around for sometime ( or as stock ) gets
depelted. Yes, old HT200's finally bit the dust sometime in the
80's, HT220's soon after and so on. But...beleive it or not
you still can get some parts for them.

And just because you may not be able to buy a Battery
for a MX, there are 1000's of Battery Mfg's that make them.

I mean really...Where do you think the " Original" Batteries
come from ? Motorola orders them from Battery vendors which
will meet there specifications.

However, Motororla has made millions of portables, Mobiles
and the like and as such have stock piled millions of the more
common replaceable / servicable items.

They make lots of monies charging 1.00 for a screw thay
has a cost of .01, and even if they have chosen not to support
a Saber Radio, there are Millions of them out there, and no-one
in their right mind would pay 400.00/500.00/600.00 for a replacement module anyway.

Same applies to Spectras..They have been a SUPER RADIO
in the Past, and they will continue to be a super radio in the
future...

If I had a choice of these later model radios....well, I chose
the Spectra anyday over these cheap sounding junk radios.

And converting the Audio, reconverting back, compressing
later model radios , just makes them sound horrible. I call
them Dixie-Cup Communications.

So this brings me to believe that the above targets the idea
that since some items may no longer be supported, that " Older "
Radios are now worthless, and perhaps should sell for 10.00 /
20.00.......I don;t think so

All radios have a " value " which is tied to age, condition, and
performance. Sure, I have some Spectras Brand New in the box,
and I would not part with them trying to match a Ebay Price.

Commerical Customers, Agencies, are crying for them, and they
have a tough time finding radios that will perform like new ones.

Sure , they can buy JUNK radios, but it cost them more to repair
than they can find a suitable replcement radio.

Some Ebay radios / equipment are very good buys, some are
pretty horrible too, and many fall victium to buying someone elses
headache and junk, then cry about throwing away a couple of
hundered dollars.

Anyhow, regardless of some radios being phased out, Motorola
still offers " Kits " to convert older style radios to the 12.5 Khz
requirements, but again, I do not see Wal Mart using Digital
Radios for their stock room....nor do I see anytime soon everyone
using Digital Communications on a 100% basis.

Govenment Agencies ? Well, the ones who can afford it, fine. The
ones who can't...well, there still is alot of VHF Fire Departments
using Spectras, and they do not have the Ulimited Budget to fill
the Corperate Pockets just to be digital.

So, they stick with what works, "Regardless" what Motorola may
due...If it gets to bad, they will just buy Vertex, Rhelm, Kenwood or
some other suitable radio for their application

Digitial Communications is a very sensitive operation, and everthing
MUST be prefect for it to work. one bit out of place, and well, you
will hear nothing.

Sorta a Blue Screen of death for Radios.

But, the more advanced formats due help protect our communications for law Enforcement, and I am all for
it for that purpose or similar.

But for general operation, analog communications will
be around for many years to come....

Motorola on the other hand ? Well 1999 to date they have
lost 60,000 employees...at the present rate, there will be no
more of them in 4 to 5 years. as they only have about 70,000
left

Monty

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Thu May 01, 2003 8:53 pm

Monty, I agree with you that what will likely happen in the next several years is that Motorola will leave the analog stuff to the offshore folks, such as Kenwood and ICOM. At some point sooner than later, Motorola will be 100% digital, and I suspect they may all together abandon the low tier market. They probably will be a smaller company in the future, and hopefully they will become more efficient.

Larry

Trm70c · Post by **Trm70c** » Thu May 01, 2003 9:05 pm

I don't think they will dump analog. They make a lot of money off of commercial accounts every year. They aren't just going to give that money to kenwood or others. If we had to buy a digital setup or kenwoods to use with our exisisting repeater we would buy kenwoods. Public safety and commercial accounts are two seperate animals, and M may push them in different directions but they surely don't want to lose either one. Our current repeater is old and we plan to buy another Motorola but never would spend the money on digital? What is the need?
Tyler

bye the way I could be totally full of crap, I am just looking at it from one viewpoint, mine.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Fri May 02, 2003 4:02 am

Just to throw my two cents in, and correct me if I am wrong....

But don't all of the DIGITAL radios do analog mode anyway? My XTS3000 and Astro Saber sure do.

So it will always be an option, with that in mind.

Jay

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Fri May 02, 2003 6:48 am

When you can go to your local radio shack and buy a "digital" 2 way radio for $100... that is when analog will be dead. Of course mos of us will be dead and remembered at that time too...

Just like Monty said... you won't see the stock room or security at Wal Mart using a digital radio... And most fire departments in the country would rather by a radio that works for the system they are on and save money for the essentials such as new turnouts for the firefighters, new firefighting equipment, new trucks...etc. For a 1.7 million dollar Motorola digital system they could outfit their department with all brand new Peirce pumper trucks and buy gear for the whole department....

I also subscribe to the practice of... if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If the communications in your area work... why change? Don't take out the system and put something new in that might possibly not have even half the coverage you had before. Too risky in my view...

Cowthief · Post by **Cowthief** » Fri May 02, 2003 7:37 am

Hello.

Speaking of fire departments, count the ones still using micors, mocoms, t-power, even old GE progress line equipment still in service.
I saw this tube type /\/\ "portable" in use at a brush fire.
Somebody is keeping THAT stuff working.
In Houston,TX, the explorers still run /\/\ business dispatchers, and will be running support for the 2004 superbowl.
Explorers have passed every test given them for communications, along with the CAP, and this is a bunch of junior high and high school kids.
The multi-million dollar Harris county trunking system, flunked every element of every test, really makes you question things.
Not long ago, a bank robbery went down in Harris county.
Sheriffs deputys were on cell phones and fire radios, trunking did not work, the press had a field day with it, this was the day after it was announced that all prior faults were fixed.

wa2zdy · Post by **wa2zdy** » Fri May 02, 2003 8:00 am

ASTROMODAT wrote: Fighting the P25 digital revolution reminds me of 1973 when folks told Engineering students that the slide rule would always live. Then the HP 35 came out!

I had an Enginering Prof who did not allow us to use calculators. His reason: What if you are in the "field" and your batteries fail?! This same idiot gave you ZERO credit on hugely complex Calculus problems if your final answer had the wrong sign (+ vs. -). You know why? Because this jerk said if you were a rocket engineer and you had the wrong sign, the rocket would go into the ground instead of straight up.

Remeinds me of the arguments against digital. It's here to stay. Throw away that ancient anlog FM junk!

Yahoo, IMBE!

Larry

Well, I still have and know how to use my slide rule (my Grandmother used it as a draftsman [that's what she called herself] during WW2). I used it in high school as an electronics student, and in college studying electrical engineering. Calculators at that time just cost more than I was willing to pay and the slide rule did the job just fine. But you're right, the argument about batteries in the field is just a little silly. And now with solar power . . .

On the other hand, why the complaint about the calculus problem? Wrong is wrong. If your answer was wrong, zero credit is about what you earned. You get credit when your answer is right, you don't want it's incorrect. The rocket flying into the ground was obviously a dramatic answer, but the analogy is valid.

It's this Dr Spock mentality that tells us we should praise our children even when the screw up, that criminals need "counselling" rather than hard time, and that everyone is really good. That's why new "journalists" tell us Castro is a great man, that Saddam is/was a hero to his people, and the Hitler was a great man who only wanted what was his (ok, that was the PM of England who said that in 1939, but you see the point.)

There are children's soccer leagues that don't keep score. That's so the losers don't "feel badly" about themselves. Cold blooded execution style murderers beat the death penalty because his MOTHER testified "he never had a Merry Christmas as a child" (Charles "Yakky" Williams, Camden County NJ, 1995 who made five fast food employees lay down on the floor before he shot them each in the back of the head. One lived and escaped to ID Mr Williams.)

And you think you deserved credit for a wrong answer on a college exam?

What am I missing here?????????????

Post by **xmo** » Fri May 02, 2003 8:15 am

"...why the complaint about the calculus problem? Wrong is wrong..."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amen.

If more teachers taught this way maybe we wouldn't have had to spend a zillion tax dollars to go back up and fix the Hubble telescope because some dufus buggered the calculations on the mirror.

NASA seems to have a lot of problems in this area. Sometimes close isn't good enough.

Post by **wavetar** » Fri May 02, 2003 5:01 pm

Monty wrote:HI:

Digitial Communications is a very sensitive operation, and everthing
MUST be prefect for it to work. one bit out of place, and well, you
will hear nothing.

Sorta a Blue Screen of death for Radios.

Monty

No offense, but that's a prime example of anti-digital rhetoric, based primarily in ignorance of the subject. Motorola's Astro IMBE radios employ a LOT of error correction, which allows the radios to work with a bit error rate of up to 10% (quite significant), with full recovery of the audio. Anything beyond that, a prediction algorithm is used to try & recover the missing pieces, which works quite well until the BER takes a nose-dive.
Things have changed a lot since the old SecureNet days, it's well worth it to be informed. I & others on this board have seen IMBE outperform analog in conventional repeater systems. Not that every system is like that, obviously, but the fact it's even possible should tell you the gap is closing quickly. The next generation (AMBE & others) will do an even better job at A/D conversions, and employ an even greater amount of error correction. Analog will never be completely gone in our lifetime, but it is getting close to it's last kick at the can.

Todd

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Fri May 02, 2003 7:16 pm

Right On, wavetar!

Post by **wavetar** » Sat May 03, 2003 2:51 am

Uh oh, Larry & I agree on something...

Monty · Post by **Monty** » Sat May 03, 2003 5:28 am

Quote: Wavtar

No offense, but that's a prime example of anti-digital rhetoric, based primarily in ignorance of the subject. Motorola's Astro IMBE radios employ a LOT of error correction, which allows the radios to work with a bit error rate of up to 10% (quite significant), with full recovery of the audio. Anything beyond that, a prediction algorithm is used to try & recover the missing pieces, which works quite well until the BER takes a nose-dive.

Hmm, rhetoric? If it worked as well as advertised, " Why" would
it need so much error correcting?

No true offense taken, however its not ignorance on the subject
here. It's the countless 100's perhaps 1000's of complaints one
hears concerning the Digital Subject form the " End User" which
you may not see.

It's like a General looking @ the troops on the front lines of a major battle field. If the bullets were flying over the " Generals Head " he may have a different point of view.

No amount of " Correction" will satisfy the person ( who may
be part of a fire department / EMT ) and may lose their life not being able to communicate. This is " Their " response to the service techs
that have to maintain the system and make it work correctly.

Just look at the Digital Cable system, Cox Cable here is So. Cal
has their Cable Boxes " Reset " at least 1~2 times a day, and
they have a perfect connection. 60 Corrections a month, 720
corrections a year ! Hmm, good system

I would hate to be on life support through a Digital Cable
System, and I would not risk my life on a digital radio either
( at least at this time ) If the Digital System was so perfect, why
has it being changed all the time ? This upgrade, that upgrade,
and then who " Pays" for it.

THE TAXPAYER ! ( At least in the US anyhow )

True, for Law Enforcement, nsa, FBI, CIA, and gov agencies
that need the " Extra" security, sure, no problem there, however
for normal every day communication, well the majority of the customers I have seen are not sold yet on digital communication.

They are very much aware of the "Price " issues for a Abco-25 Upgrade, on the order of 200~400 [ PER RADIO ] upgrade, and
multiply that times 5000 and you have mega bucks involved.

Great for Motorola ( and others ) but again, horrible if you
have to pay for it.

Digital Communication for a Horse Ranch, etc. Total, Complete, and
absolute non-sense. A lot of these Farmers can run a Combine,
but will not foot the bill for a Digital Communication Device since
they have enough com-and-sense to know better, and they many
times will chose the more reliable ( and cheaper ) route.

At this time, there is just NOT ENOUGH Techs around that
are " Digital Savvy " Sure , there are many of them, but as
the US keeps installing more and more digital equipment,
someone will have to maintain it " Right on channel " Constant
Routine service, and Yes, have a good supply of digital
support equipment ( and know how ) to make it work.

So far, I have seen many persons complain about the [ Echo's ],
[ Signal Drop Outs ], constant " Re-dialing "to establish contact,
with respects to Cell Phones, and when it comes to Digital
Trunking with high speed switching, who knows ?

It would not be so bad if it was just 1 or 2 issues, but there
are 1000's of them,, perhaps even more, and again, when its
a life / death issue, many a time, digital signals fail where analog
keeps on working.

And when compressing the bandwidth even further, to be in compliance with the FCC, well they better have some super savvy techs being trained to make it work, AND BE WILLING TO PAY THEM A DECENT WAGE. Presently, the thinking is to use a Monkey, give him a box of support cards and a Digital Monitor, and pay them with freeze dried banana chips.

They are told if the D/A LED's are not illuminated, replace the
card. If that doesn't work, call a supervisor, If that does not
work, call god.

Better idea ! Come up with " Digital AC Power Frequency Control"
for the newer more advanced Digital Light Bulbs ! and make all the older appliances obsolete, create a all new market all at the same
time.

Opps, perhaps I should not say anynmore....

Monty

Post by **wavetar** » Sat May 03, 2003 5:51 am

Monty wrote:
Hmm, rhetoric? If it worked as well as advertised, " Why" would
it need so much error correcting?

Monty

I can't believe you even asked that question! It's an intrinsic part of how it works. Without error correction, perhaps your earlier statement about 1-bit causing severe problems would be correct. The fact remains, there can be errors of almost 1Kb/s and still 100% recovery of the audio is possible.
The rest of your post contained apples to oranges comparisons & other strange thoughts, so I cannot comment on it.

Todd

Monty · Post by **Monty** » Sat May 03, 2003 7:22 am

Hi Todd:

We all know Digital is the wave of the future !

Like it or not, Digital will win just like Solid-State Devices over
Tubes, but as a Stereo geru, I stll perfere my Audio Research over my Carver......, and I still hate the cost of Telefunken Tubes.
( and the inherent noise & heat )

Only way to correct that error is to toss the old, bring
in the new.

Just was tosed in as fun to get a response....

MS

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Sat May 03, 2003 8:59 am

Monty noted that it costs $200 to $400 to uplift an ASTRO "digital ready" radio to IMBE. Actually, it costs $770 plus tax (about $840 in my County) per radio. Motorola says this cost is NOT discountable, unless you have a specific contract covering this upgrade on a fleet wide basis. No doubt the Big Fed Boys do have such "fleet wide"contracts, so they probably do pay less, but I'd be surprised if they get a 50% discount.

Larry

60hzEE · Post by **60hzEE** » Sun May 04, 2003 6:01 am

Maybe there's a reason....., but the effective date of the end of support was not included. Here's a partial list of radios from the MOL Business on Line site that are popular:

EFFECTIVE 1/01/05

Analog Spectra, P110, Maxtrac Duplex, SP10, P200 Low Band, GP350, GP300.

EFFECTIVE 1/1/06

Analog Sabre, M208, M216, SaberX, P200, Maxtrac 800 LTR, Maxtrac 800/900 Privacy Plus, Maxtrac 100/300.

/\/\ has discontinued the HT600 and the MT1000 several years ago, but you can still buy many parts for them. So, based on what typically happens, most parts will be around for quite a few years after the formal end of support.

All of the digital discussion, trunking, and the like is driven home when I see the local fire district vehicles with two antennae (and two radios.) No, it's not that the tech was lazy and left the old antenna and mount there....

One's for the Manatee County (FL) county-wide trunking system. The other is the (former) analog, point to point VHF radio. Now why would they keep those in all of their trucks?

Post by **wavetar** » Mon May 05, 2003 12:04 pm

60hzEE wrote:
One's for the Manatee County (FL) county-wide trunking system. The other is the (former) analog, point to point VHF radio. Now why would they keep those in all of their trucks?

Not sure what's going on in Florida, but here's the scenario around here:

New Digital Capable SmartZone Omnilink system in place, full provincial coverage. Three Hundred and fourteen fire departments (volunteer & otherwise) in the province. The government paid for two "seed radios" for every department in the province. That's a huge chunk of money, but far less than the cost of completely switching everyone over. These are used to maintain comms with anyone who may use the new system, and still allow the departments to use their existing VHF systems. Now the departments are on their own. It's up to them to come up with the funds for any future radio purchases. But yeah, for now there's vehicles with 2 radios in them. Not a reflection of the good/bad of the system, just economics. That's just one explanation, based on what's going on up here in Nova Scotia.

Todd

1 Adam 12 · Post by **1 Adam 12** » Mon May 05, 2003 1:15 pm

As to the fire service keeping an analog VHF in Fla, We have State Forestry and US forestry... They are VHF.... A lot of the responding agencies and cache radios are VHF, also for mutual aid with older systems. This probably holds true in a lot of the mountain and western States also. The State is changing to EDACS- Provoice, and have already done the Southwest and are moving up the coast across and then back down, which will take out the Motorola system ..eventually . Jacksonville went Motorola digital... , Martin County, also... and the rest are Motorola and Edacs with VHF, UHF still strewn around.
We use multiple systems, 800, VHF and still have analog VHF for Marine, and other inter-agency stuff... but just like the Marine DCS, they are selling the radios with it now, but the Coast Guard I believe won't be fully capable till 2004.
You can expect to see more narrow-band and eventually more digital as time passes.

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Mon May 05, 2003 6:53 pm

As far as Garbage Systems' "Provoice" and other various competing systems...

In the long run, my bet is that Motorola will win, and BIG TIME! The Dept of Homeland Security just gave a HUGE contract to Motorola for ASTRO trunked gear. And, if these various Agencies are not compatible with Motorola's trunked system, then they are irrelevant. Something NO political animal can afford to become!!

Larry

Susan157 · Post by **Susan157** » Mon May 05, 2003 7:23 pm

The word Pye was used on the comments here.
The Boys made big money working and working
and working on PYE radios.It should have
been called The Lemon Cash Cow.

JohnG · Post by **JohnG** » Mon May 05, 2003 7:29 pm

....and then who " Pays" for it. THE TAXPAYER ! ( At least in the US anyhow )

Actually some systems are being sold as Motorola Build-Own-Operate. In these systems, Motorola builds the system to agreed upon specifications and then leases airtime to the customer. The customer pays for the radios that are used on the system. The State of Illinois "Starcom21" system is an example of this arrangement.

CyberSlicer · Post by **CyberSlicer** » Wed May 07, 2003 4:58 am

60hzEE wrote:Maybe there's a reason....., but the effective date of the end of support was not included. Here's a partial list of radios from the MOL Business on Line site that are popular:

EFFECTIVE 1/01/05

Analog Spectra, P110, Maxtrac Duplex, SP10, P200 Low Band, GP350, GP300.

EFFECTIVE 1/1/06

Analog Sabre, M208, M216, SaberX, P200, Maxtrac 800 LTR, Maxtrac 800/900 Privacy Plus, Maxtrac 100/300.

/\/\ has discontinued the HT600 and the MT1000 several years ago, but you can still buy many parts for them. So, based on what typically happens, most parts will be around for quite a few years after the formal end of support.

All of the digital discussion, trunking, and the like is driven home when I see the local fire district vehicles with two antennae (and two radios.) No, it's not that the tech was lazy and left the old antenna and mount there....

One's for the Manatee County (FL) county-wide trunking system. The other is the (former) analog, point to point VHF radio. Now why would they keep those in all of their trucks?

It's interesting to note that the Astro Saber is also on that list of no longer supported radios effective 6/1/08.

Don

Cowthief · Post by **Cowthief** » Wed May 07, 2003 10:23 am

Hello.

The new radios on order are government SP models, have extra large EEPROMS, this is to allow for smartnet, TETRA, and a not yet disclosed new trunking standard.
Plans are in the works for a radio that works multi-standard, multi-system.
This is to work along the lines of cellular/PCS telephones of today, the user need not know what standard, simply that it works.
The government runs both extended cellular, 167 channels in the "C" band, only a small number is actually in use, and a large number of channels just outside the PCS bands, in GSM.
The government has only very slight changes made to standard telephones, and the units work on normal channels as well.